Contents

Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Sri Jaiva-dharma

Volume Two


Table of Contents

Chapter Seven - Nitya-dharma O Samsar
Eternal Duties, Household Life and the Material World

Chapter Eight - Nitya-dharma O Vyavahar
The Eternal Religion and Ordinary Activities

Chapter Nine - Nitya-dharma O Prakrta-vijnan Evam Sabhyata
Eternal Religion and Modern Science - Civilisation

Chapter Ten - Nitya-dharma O Itihasa
Eternal Religion and History

Chapter Eleven - Nitya-dharma O Byut-parasta Arthat Pauttalikata
Eternal Religion and Byut-parasta, Or Deity Worship

Chapter Seven
Nitya-dharma O Samsar
Eternal Duties, Household Life, and the Material World
      On  the  bank  of the Sarasvati was an ancient merchant  town
named Saptagrama.  For a long time a thousand merchants and bankers
have  lived there.  By the mercy of Lord Nityananda, since the time
of  Sri  Uddharana  Datta  these  merchants  have  enthusiastically
chanted the holy names of Lord Hari.  Fearing that much money would
be  spent, a merchant named Candi dasa would not join the people of
the  town in chanting the holy names of Lord Hari.  By living  very
frugally,  he had accumulated a lot of money.  His wife  Damayanta,
who had contracted this nature from her husband, would not give due
respect  to  Vaisnavas  or guests.  In their  youth  this  merchant
couple had four sons and two daughters.  Marrying off first one and
then  the  other  daughter, the couple carefully kept  their  great
wealth to give to their sons.  When Vaisnavas never visit  a  home,
the  children  in  there  do  not naturally  become  very  kind  or
generous.  These qualities become stunted.  As the children grew up
they became more and more selfish.  Eager to get their inheritance,
they  yearned  for their parent's deaths.  The unhappiness  of  the
merchant  couple knew no bounds.  One by one of the sons were  also
married.   Imbibing  their husband's nature,  the  daughters-in-law
also  began to wish their husband's parents would die.   When  they
became  able,  the  sons  divided their father's  wealth,  and  set
themselves up as merchants.
      One  day Candi dasa called together his sons and said, "Look.
By  living frugally since childhood, I have accumulated some wealth
for  your  sakes.  For all this time your mother and  I  have   not
eaten  good  food or dressed in nice clothing.  Now we are  growing
old and you should take care of us.  That is your duty.  However, I
see that you are not inclined to take care of us, and that has made
me  very  sad.  I have some wealth hidden away, and I will give  to
whomever amongst you acts like a good son.
      Hearing these words, the sons and their wives became  silent.
Meeting  in  another place, they all decided that  the  best  thing
would  be  to  send father and mother far away and  then  take  the
hidden  money,  for there was no saying to whom the old  man  would
wrongly  give  it.   All were sure the wealth  was  hidden  in  the
father's bedroom.
      The father's eldest son was name Nari-carana.  One morning he
said  to  his  father, "Father, you and mother should  go  and  see
Sridhama  Navadvipa.   In  that  way  your  human  life   will   be
successful.  I have heard that in the age of Kali no holy place  is
sacred  and  auspicious like Navadvipa.  To travel to Navadvipa  is
neither difficult nor expensive.  If you cannot walk, for two panas
a boat can take you there.  If you wish, a Vaisnava lady is willing
to accompany you there.
      Candi dasa consulted with his wife, Damayanti.  She was  very
happy.  The two talked.  "Your words the other day brought our sons
to  their senses.  We are not so weak that we cannot walk.  Passing
through Kalna and Santipura, let us go to Sridhama Navadvipa."
      Noting  an  auspicious day, the two began  their  pilgrimage.
Walking  and walking, on the next day they came to Ambika.  Staying
there at a merchant's place, they cooked and ate their meal.  A man
from  Saptagrama  came there and told them, "Your sons  broke  into
your room and took all your belongings.  They will not allow you to
return home.  They have taken all your hidden wealth."
      Hearing  this, Candi dasa and his wife lamented greatly.   On
that  day  they would not eat.  They wept and wept.   The  Vaisnava
lady  accompanying  them  said, "Don't be attached  to  your  home.
Continue  travelling.   Renounce the world.   Meet  the  Vaisnavas.
They  for  whom you have done so much have now become your enemies.
Now you cannot return home.  Continue travelling.  You can stay  in
Navadvipa.  By begging you can eat.  All will be well."
      Hearing  of  what their sons and daughters-in-law  had  done,
Candi  dasa and his wife said again and again, "We will not  return
home.   It  is  better that we give up our lives.   That  would  be
best."
      After  that they stayed at the home of a Vaisnava in  Ambika-
grama.  After two or four days they went to see Santipura and  then
they went to Navadvipa.  There they stayed in Mayapura, in the home
of a relative who was a merchant.  They stayed for two or four days
and  then went to see the seven village of Navadvipa, and,  on  the
other side of the ganga, the seven villages of Kuliya-grama.  After
a  few days love for their sons and daughters-in-law again arose in
their hearts.
      Candi  dasa said, "Come.  Let us go to Saptagrama.  Will  not
our  sons love us even a little?"  Then the Vaisnava lady  who  was
accompanying  them said, "Have you no shame?  They will  kill  you.
Hearing  this, the old couple became afraid.  They said to her,  "O
saintly Vaisnava, please return to your home.  We will live  alone.
We  will  approach a saintly person, learn from him,  and  live  by
begging."
      The Vaisnava lady left.  The merchant couple gave up all hope
of  returning  home.  They considered building a new  home  in  the
Chakari  Catta neighbourhood of Kuliya-grama.  After  begging  from
many  good  people, they were able to build a cottage.   In  sacred
Kuliya-grama  past offenses are all forgiven.  When a person  lives
there his past offenses are thrown far away.  That is what is  said
about that place.
      One  day  Candi  dasa said, "O mother of  Hari,  why  do  you
continue  like  this?   Don't say anything more  about  your  sons.
Don't even think of them.  In our past lives we must have committed
many,  many  offenses.  That is why we took birth in the  homes  of
merchants.  Because of that low birth we became misers and  refused
to serve Vaisnavas and guests.  If here we can make a little money,
we  should  use  it to serve guests.  Then our next birth  will  be
good.   I  have set my mind to open a grocery store.  After  a  few
days  of  striving in that way, Candi dasa finally opened  a  small
store.   Every day he earned a small profit.  After eating  a  full
meal, every day the husband and wife fed a guest.  Candi dasa lived
better than he did before.
     Candi dasa was a little educated.  In his spare moments at the
store he would read Gunaraja Khana's book Sri Krsna-vijaya.  He was
honest  in buying and selling and he would serve guests.   In  this
way  five  or six months passed.  When they learned his story,  the
people of Kuliya-grama began to have faith in Candi dasa.
      It  was in that neighbourhood that Yadava dasa lived.  Yadava
dasa was a household Vaisnava.  He would read Sri Caitanya-mangala.
Sometimes Candi dasa would listen to him reading.  Yadava dasa  and
his wife liked to serve the Vaisnavas.  Seeing them, Candi dasa and
his wife also came to like serving the Vaisnavas.
      One  day  Candi dasa asked Yadava dasa, "What is the material
world?"  Yadava dasa replied, "On the other shore of the Ganga,  on
the island of Godruma, live many learned Vaisnavas.  Go there.  Ask
them  this question.  I go there sometimes and in that way I  learn
many  things.   Nowadays the Vaisnava panditas in Sri  Godruma  are
better   scripture  scholars  than  even  the  brahmana   panditas.
Yesterday an assembly of brahmana panditas were defeated in  debate
by  Sri  Vaisnava dasa Babaji.  He will give a good answer to  your
question.
      That  afternoon Yadava dasa and Candi dasa crossed the Ganga.
Damayanti   was  now  accustomed  to  serve  the  Vaisnavas.    The
miserliness in her heart had lessened.  She said, "I will  go  with
you  to  Sri Godruma."  Yadava dasa said, "The Vaisnavas there  are
not householders.  They are renunciants.  I think they will not  be
happy  to have you in their midst."  Damayanti said, "I will  offer
dandavat obeisances from afar.  I will not enter into the middle of
the  grove.   I am an old lady.  They will not be angry  with  me."
Then  Yadava dasa said, "The custom is that women may not go there.
It  is better that you merely wait nearby and accompany us when  we
return."
     At nine in the morning the three of them crossed the Ganga and
approached  Pradyumna-kunja.  At the entrance to the  forest  grove
Damayanti  offered dandavat obeisances and sat down  under  an  old
banyan  tree.  Yadava dasa and Candi dasa entered the forest  grove
and  devotedly offered dandavat obeisances to the Vaisnavas sitting
in the place of madhavi and malati vines.
      The  paramahamsa babaji was sitting there.  On his four sides
were  Sri  Vaisnava dasa, Lahiri Mahasaya, Ananta dasa  Babaji  and
many others.  Yadava dasa approached and sat down.  Candi dasa  sat
beside him.
      Saintly  Ananta  dasa Babaji asked, "Who  is  the  new  man?"
Yadava dasa repeated all of Candi dasa's story.  Ananta dasa babaji
smiled  and  said,  "Yes.   That is what is  called  'the  material
world.'   He who knows the true nature of this world is  wise.   He
who  is  trapped in the cycle of birth and death in this  world  is
truly an object of pity."
      Candi  dasa's  heart  gradually  become  purified.   One  who
performs eternal pious deeds attains auspiciousness.  Honouring the
Vaisnavas and reading and hearing the Vaisnava scriptures were  the
beginning of Candi dasa's eternal pious deeds.  By performing these
pious  deeds  again and again he became pure in heart and  attained
sincere  faith  in pure devotional service.  When he  heard  Ananta
dasa's  words, Candi dasa, his heart now beginning to  melt,  said,
"Today I make this request: Please be merciful and tell me clearly:
What is the material world?"
     Sri Ananta dasa: Candi dasa, your question is very serious.  I
wish that either the paramahamsa babaji or Sri Vaisnava dasa Babaji
would give the answer.
      The  Paramahamsa  Babaji: This is a  serious  question.   Sri
Ananta dasa Babaji is qualified to give the answer.  Today we  will
all listen to the instruction he gives.
     Ananta dasa: I must obey your order.  I will speak as far as I
have understanding.  I will begin by remembering the lotus feet  of
my  spiritual master, Srila Pradyumna Brahmacari, who is an exalted
personal associate of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
      The individual spirit soul has two state of existence: 1. the
liberated state, and 2. the state of bondage in the prison  of  the
material world.  An individual soul who is a pure devotee  of  Lord
Krsna  is not bound by the illusory potency maya.  By Lord  Krsna's
mercy such a soul is liberated from the material world of maya.  He
is  a  liberated  soul.  His state of existence  is  the  liberated
state.   On  the other hand, a soul who tries to avoid  Lord  Krsna
falls into the gaping mouth of the illusory potency maya..  Such  a
soul  is  imprisoned in the material world.  His state of existence
is  residence in the material world.  A soul liberated from maya is
always  conscious  of his original spiritual identity.   His  whole
life is service to Lord Krsna.  Such a soul does not reside in  the
material  world.   He resides in one of the pure spiritual  worlds.
Goloka, Vaikuntha and Vrndavana are the names of some of these pure
spiritual  worlds.   The  souls free from  maya  are  limitless  in
number.  They cannot be counted.
     The souls bound in maya's prison are also limitless in number.
They  cannot  be counted either.  A soul averse to Lord  Krsna,  is
bound by Lord Krsna's shadow-potency maya, who binds that soul with
ropes   of  goodness,  passion  and  ignorance.   Because  of   the
difference of these three ropes, the imprisoned souls are placed in
many different states of existence.  The variety of those states is
astonishing.  They who think for a moment will see this astonishing
variety.   These souls manifest an astonishing variety of  material
bodies,   an  astonishing  variety  of  states  of  existence,   an
astonishing variety of forms, an astonishing variety of natures, an
astonishing  variety of residences, and an astonishing  variety  of
movements.   When he first enters the material world, the  soul  is
covered by a new sense of identity.  In his pure state of existence
the  soul thinks "I am a servant of Lord Krsna".  However,  in  the
state  of  material bondage the soul thinks: "I am a human  being".
"I  am  a  demigod."  "I am an animal".  "I am a king".   "I  am  a
brahmana".  "I am an outcaste".  "I am suffering".  "I am  hungry".
"I  am  insulted".  "I am generous".  "I am a husband".   "I  am  a
wife".  "I am a father".  "I am a son".  "I am an enemy".  "I am  a
friend".  "I am learned".  "I am handsome".  "I am wealthy".  "I am
poor".   "I  am happy".  "I am sad".  "I am strong".  "I am  weak".
In  this  way  the  soul  may  have different  conceptions  of  his
identity.  This is called "false-ego".  There is also another thing
called   "false   possessiveness".    In   the   grip   of   false-
possessiveness, the soul things: "This is my house".  "This  is  my
thing."  "This is my wealth".  "This is my body".  "This is my  son
and my daughter".  "This is my wife".  "This is my husband".  "This
is  my father".  "This is my mother."  "This is my caste into which
I  was born."  "This is my power."  "This is my form."  "This is my
virtue."   "This  is  my  knowledge".  "This is  my  renunciation."
"This  is  my wisdom."  "This is my activity."  "This  is  my  good
fortune."  "These are my servants and dependants."  In this way the
souls  uses  the  word  "my" in many different  ways.   This  great
variety of "I's" and "My's" are called the "material world".
      Yadava dasa: I see how there are many "I's" and "My's" in the
state  of  material bondage.  But are there no "I's" and "My's"  in
the liberated state?
      Ananta dasa: In the liberated state the "I's" and "My's"  are
all  spiritual and free of fault.  There is manifested  the  soul's
original spiritual identity, which was originally created  by  Lord
Krsna.   Because  of these different spiritual identities,  in  the
spiritual world there are many different "I's".  Although all souls
there  are  Lord  Krsna's servants, they have a  great  variety  of
spiritual   relationships  with  the  Lord.   All   the   different
relationships manifest the idea of "My".
      Yadava  dasa: If this is so, then what is the  fault  in  the
great variety of "I's" and "My's" manifest among the souls bound in
the material world?
      Ananta dasa: The fault is this:  In the soul's pure state the
ideas of "I" and "My" are based on reality.  However, when the soul
resides  in  the  material world these ideas of "I"  and  "My"  are
artificial  impositions.  They are not real.  They  are  illusions.
In  the  material world they are all temporary, unnatural, and  the
sources of fleeting pleasures and pains.
     Yadava dasa: Then is the material world an illusion?
      Ananta dasa: The material world is not an illusion.  By  Lord
Krsna's will it is reality.  However, a soul who enters this  world
has  many  illusory  conceptions of  "I"  and  "My".   Those  false
conceptions  are illusions.  The mayavadis, who are all  offenders,
claim that this world is an illusion.
     Yadava dasa: Why do we have illusory material relationships?
     Ananta dasa: The individual soul is a tiny particle of spirit.
The  first  situation  of  the soul is on the  boundary  line  that
separates the spiritual and material worlds.  In that condition the
souls  that  do  not forget their original relationship  with  Lord
Krsna come under the control of the spiritual potency and are drawn
into  the  spiritual  world.  Becoming eternal associates  of  Lord
Krsna, they enjoy the bliss of serving Him directly.  The souls who
are  averse  to  Lord  Krsna and who wish to  enjoy  the  pleasures
offered to maya are drawn into the world of maya.  That is  why  we
now reside in the material world.  When we enter the material world
we  forget  our true spiritual identity.  Then we think "I  am  the
enjoyer  of maya".  Then maya encircles us with a great variety  of
false identities.
      Yadava dasa: Why, then, though we endeavour to attain it,  we
do  not  succeed  in regaining the consciousness  of  our  original
spiritual identity?
       Ananta   dasa:  Those  endeavours  are  of  two  kinds:   1.
appropriate,   and   2.   inappropriate.   Appropriate   endeavours
inevitably  throw  far  away  all  material  illusions  about   our
identity.  On the other hand, how can one succeed if his endeavours
are not appropriate?
      Yadava dasa: What are inappropriate endeavours?  Please  tell
me.
      Ananta dasa: When a soul purifies his heart by performing the
duties of karma-kanda, takes shelter of the impersonal Brahman, and
thinks  "Now  I will become free of maya", his endeavours  are  all
inappropriate.  When a soul tries to attain spiritual perfection by
performing  astanga-yoga  and entering a  trance  of  samadhi,  his
endeavour  also  is inappropriate.  There are many other  kinds  of
inappropriate endeavour also.
     Yadava dasa: Why are these endeavours not appropriate?
      Ananta  dasa: They are not appropriate because many obstacles
stop one from attaining the desired results by practicing them, and
because there is only the most slender chance that one will succeed
by  practicing  them.   We  were thrust into  this  material  world
because we committed an offense.  We will not be able to throw away
our material condition of life without first attaining the mercy of
that person we offended.  Without His mercy we will  not attain our
original pure state.
     Yadava dasa: What are the appropriate means?
       Ananta   dasa:  Association  with  devotees  and  surrender.
Association  with devotees is described in these  words  of  Srimad
Bhagavatam (11.2.30):
      "Therefore,  O completely sinless ones, I ask you  to  kindly
tell  me what the supreme good is.  After all, even half a minute's
association with pure devotees within this world of birth and death
is a priceless treasure for any man."***
      If  you ask, "How can the souls in this material world attain
the  supreme  good," then I say, "if one has a moment's association
with  the  devotees of the Lord, then one will attain  the  supreme
good."   The Supreme Personality of Godhead describes surrender  in
these words of Bhagavad-gita (7.14):
      "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of
material  nature,  is difficult to overcome.  But  those  who  have
surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."*
      Here  the Lord says, "My divine maya potency consists of  the
three  material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance.   By  his
own  endeavour,  a  human  being cannot  cross  beyond  this  maya.
Therefore  this  maya  is very difficult to  overcome.   However  a
person  who  surrenders unto Me and takes shelter of Me  can  cross
beyond this maya."
      Candi  dasa:  O saintly one, I am not able to understand  all
these  explanations  very  well.  This  much  I  understand:  I  am
originally  a  pure being.  Forgetting Krsna, I  have  fallen  into
maya.   I  am bound in the prison of the material world.   By  Lord
Krsna's  mercy I may be released.  If I do not attain Lord  Krsna's
mercy, I will stay in this condition.
      Ananta  dasa: Yes.  Now you accept this much.  Your  teacher,
Yadava dasa knows all these truths, and you have learned them  from
him.   In  the book Sri Prema-vivarta, Sri Jagadananda,  who  is  a
close associate of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has said:
      "The  individual soul is a tiny particle of spirit, and  Lord
Krsna is a great sun of spirit.  The liberated soul always gazes at
Lord Krsna.  The liberated soul always worships Lord Krsna.
      "As  soon as one becomes inimical to Krsna and desires  sense
gratification, he is immediately struck down by the illusory energy
of the Lord.*
     "When a living entity is conditioned by material nature, he is
exactly like a person haunted by a ghost.*
      "Forgetting  the words 'In my perfect state I am  servant  of
Krsna', he serves maya for a long time.
      "Sometimes  he  is  a  king.   Sometimes  he  is  a  citizen.
Sometimes he is a brahmana.  Sometimes he is a sudra.  Sometimes he
is sad.  Sometimes he is happy.  Sometimes he is a tiny insect.
      "Sometimes  he  is in Svargaloka.  Sometimes  he  is  in  the
earthly  realms.   Sometimes he is in  hell.   Sometimes  he  is  a
demigod.   Sometimes he is a demon.  Sometimes  he  is  a  servant.
Sometimes he is a master.  Sometimes he is a servant.
      "Thus he wanders in the material worlds.  When he attains the
association of devotees, he can understand the truth about himself.
      "When  he  understands the truth about himself he  no  longer
wishes to stay in the material world.  Then he laments, 'Why did  I
serve maya for so long?"
      "He  weeps  and cries out, 'O Krsna, I am Your  servant.   By
leaving Your feet, I lost everything."
      "When  the soul once cries for Krsna in this way, Lord  Krsna
becomes merciful and helps him leave the material world.
      "Then  the  soul  turns  away from  maya.   Again  and  again
worshipping Krsna, the soul attains Krsna's lotus feet.
      "Krsna  then  places that soul under the  protection  of  His
internal  potency.   Maya then loses her  power.   Maya  no  longer
attracts that soul.
      "This  is attained by associating with devotees and  chanting
the  holy names of Lord Krsna.  There is no other way to escape the
material world of birth and death."
      Yadava dasa: O saintly babaji, you speak of association  with
devotees, but devotees also live in the material world.  They  also
suffer  in  the material world.  How is it possible that  they  can
deliver other souls?
      Ananta dasa: Devotees live in the material world.  Still, the
material  world  that  is  their home is very  different  from  the
material  world  that  is  home to the souls  bewildered  by  maya.
Looking  at them from the outside, they seem to be the same  world.
But within they are very different.  There are always some devotees
in  the  material world.  Still, the non-devotees do not choose  to
associate  with  them.   The  association  of  devotees  is  rarely
attained.   The  souls  devoured by maya may be  divided  into  two
groups:  1.  they  who, mad to enjoy the tiny  pleasures  of  maya,
worship  the material world, and 2. the intelligent souls who,  not
attracted  to  the  pleasures  of  maya,  hope  to  attain   better
pleasures.   In  this way the residents of the material  world  are
divided  into  two  groups:  1.  the  unintelligent,  and  2.   the
intelligent.   Some  call  these two groups:  1.  they  who  desire
material  sense  gratification, and 2. they who desire  liberation.
The  phrase  "they  who desire liberation" does not  refer  to  the
impersonalists.  It means "they who, burned by the  flames  of  the
world  of  repeated birth and death, seek to understand their  true
spiritual identity.  The Vedic literatures call such persons  "they
who  desire liberation".  When such persons renounce the desire  to
attain impersonal liberation and instead engage in worshipping  and
serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead, their worship is called
pure  devotional  service.  The scriptures do not  order  that  one
should  renounce the desire for liberation.  Rather, the moment  he
understands the truth of Lord Krsna and the individual spirit soul,
the person desiring liberation becomes at once liberated.  This  is
explained in the following words of Srimad Bhagavatam (6.14.3-5):
      "In this material world there are as many living entities  as
atoms.   Among  these living entities a very few are human  beings,
and   among   them  few  are  interested  in  following   religious
principles.*
      "O  best  of  the brahmanas, Sukadeva Gosvami,  out  of  many
persons  who  follow  religious  principles,  only  a  few   desire
liberation  from  the  material world.  Among  many  thousands  who
desire  liberation, one may actually achieve liberation, giving  up
material  attachment to society, friendship, love,  country,  home,
wife,  and  children.  And among many thousands of  such  liberated
persons,  one who can understand the true meaning of liberation  is
very rare.*
      "O  great  sage,  among many millions who are  liberated  and
perfect  in knowledge of liberation, one may be a devotee  of  Lord
Nityananda,  or Krsna.  Such devotees, who are fully peaceful,  are
extremely rare."*
      As  the number grains of sand in the world cannot be counted.
Among these souls a small number seek eternal auspiciousness.  Most
are  interested in material sense gratification.  Of they who  seek
the  highest  spiritual  good, most are interested  in  liberation,
which  means  to  escape  the material  world.   Of  thousands  and
thousands of souls seeking liberation, few attain the perfection of
truth  and actually become liberated.  Of millions and millions  of
liberated souls, few become peaceful devotees of Lord Narayana.   A
devotee of Lord Narayana is very rare.  A devotee of Lord Krsna  is
even  more rare.  Even though they may live in the material  world,
the devotees of Lord Krsna experience a life that is different from
the   life  of  the  materialists.   The  devotees  of  Lord  Krsna
experience two conditions of existence.
      Yadava  dasa:  You  have said that there are  four  kinds  of
intelligent  persons.   What  are  their  different  statements  of
existence, and what is association with devotees?
      Ananta dasa: There are four kinds of intelligent persons:  1.
they who are the beginning stage of being intelligent, 2. they  who
desire to attain liberation, 3. they who are liberated, and 4. they
who  have  attained perfection, or in other words, the devotees  of
the   Lord.   For  persons  at  the  beginning  states   of   being
intelligent,  association  with persons who  desire  liberation  is
good.   The  liberated  souls may be divided into  two  groups:  1.
liberated souls who taste the nectar of the spiritual mellows,  and
2.  the mayavadis, who falsely imagine that they are  not different
from  the Supreme.  These mayavadis are considered offenders.   All
classes  of  people are forbidden to associate with them.   In  the
Tenth Canto  (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.2.31) it is said:
      "O lotus-eyed one, those who think they are liberated in this
life  but do not render devotional service to You must be of impure
intelligence.  Although they accept severe austerities and penances
and   rise  to  the  spiritual  position,  to  impersonal   Brahman
realisation, they fall down again because they neglect  to  worship
Your lotus feet."*
      The  fourth  kind  of intelligent person, the  devotees,  are
divided  into  two  groups: 1. they who worship  the  Lord  in  His
feature  of  opulence,  and 2. they who worship  the  Lord  in  His
feature of sweetness.  Association with such devotees is beneficial
in every way.  Especially, if one takes shelter of a devotee who is
attached  to  the Lord's feature in sweetness, the nectar  of  pure
devotional service rises within his heart.
      Yadava  dasa:  You  have said that there  are  two  kinds  of
devotees.  Please describe them more clearly, so even unintelligent
persons like myself can understand.
      Ananta  dasa:  The devotees are of two kinds: 1.  householder
devotees, and 2. devotees who have renounced householder life.
     Yadava dasa: What is the situation of a householder devotee in
the material world.  Please kindly explain this.
      Ananta  dasa: The word "householder" does not mean  "one  who
builds  a  house".  Rather, the word means "a person who accepts  a
wife  and  stays with her in a house."  A devotee in this situation
is  called a "householder devotee".  A soul bound in the prison  of
the  illusory potency maya, enters the material world  through  the
doors of the five knowledge-acquiring senses.  Through the door  of
the  eyes he sees forms and colours.  Through the door of the  ears
he   hears  sounds.   Through  the  door  of  the  nose  he  smells
fragrances.  Through the door of the skin he touches.  Through  the
door  of the tongue he tastes.  Entering the material world through
these  five doors, the souls becomes attached to the world.  As  he
becomes  attached to the material world, the soul goes farther  and
farther  from Sri Krsna, the Lord of the heart.  That  is  why  the
material  world is called "the external world".  They who  are  mad
after  enjoying  the  material world  are  called  hedonists.   The
householder  devotees  of the Lord are not eager  to  please  their
senses.   Therefore  they  are  not  like  the  hedonists.   For  a
householder  devotee, his wife is the maidservant  of  Lord  Krsna.
His  sons  and daughters are also all the servants of  Lord  Krsna.
When with his eyes he sees the Deity form of Lord Krsna or the form
of  things  related to Lord Krsna, the householder devotee  becomes
happy.  When with his ears he hears the topics of Lord Krsna or the
biographies of the great devotees, the householder devotee  becomes
happy.   When  with  his  nose  he smells  the  tulasi  leaves  and
fragrances  offered to Lord Krsna, the householder devotee  becomes
filled  with bliss.  With his tongue the householder devotee tastes
the  holy names of Lord Krsna and remnants of food offered to  Lord
Krsna.   When  with  his skin he touches the  feet  of  the  Lord's
devotees,  the  householder  devotee  becomes  happy.   His  hopes,
actions,  desires, hospitality, and service to the  Deity  are  all
used  in  the service of Lord Krsna.  His entire life  is  a  great
festival of 1. mercy to others, 2. the holy name of Lord Krsna, and
3. service to Vaisnavas.  In this way a devotee householder remains
aloof  from  hedonism:  In the age of Kali it is  very  appropriate
that the individual souls become householder Vaisnava.  In that way
there is no fear that they will fall down.  Also, by following this
path  one  may  attain  the full perfection of devotional  service.
Many  self-realised  Vaisnava spiritual masters  are  householders.
Their  children  also are pure devotees.  In this  way  association
with  householder devotees of the Lord is especially beneficial  to
the souls in this world.
      Yadava  dasa:  Householder Vaisnavas are naturally under  the
control  of  the  smarta  panditas.  If the  Vaisnavas  try  to  be
independent of them, there is trouble.  In this situation how is it
possible to engage in pure devotional service?
      Ananta  dasa:  For  marrying  off  sons  and  daughters,  for
performing funeral rites, and for a few others rituals  it  may  be
necessary  to engage smarta panditas.  Still, there is no  need  to
engage them for the spiritual activities that are most dear to  the
heart.   Look, for maintaining the material body all are  dependent
on  others.  Even they who proudly think themselves independent are
in truth still dependent on others.  When one suffers from disease,
he  must take medicine.  When one is hungry, he must eat food.   To
ward  off the cold, one must accept clothing.  Because of the  sun,
rain, and other difficulties one must build a house.  For these and
many other things one needs to maintain his material body, one must
depend on others.  To be independent is merely, as far as possible,
to  limit  these situations of depending on others.  The truth  is,
however,  that  no  one  can be completely  independent  and  still
maintain  his material body.  Still, to be independent  as  far  as
possible  is  good  and  helpful for devotional  service.   If  one
observes all these previously described rituals in relation to Lord
Krsna,  then there is no fault in observing them.  For example,  if
marriage  is  accepted not only to beget good children and  worship
the  Prajapati,  but  also  to engage  one's  wife  and  family  in
devotional service to Lord Krsna, then household life is favourable
for  devotional service.  Let the materialists, the Vedic  priests,
and  other  say  what  they will, one still attains  the  spiritual
benefit  of  these devotional activities.  On the sraddha  day  one
should  first  worship  Lord  Krsna, offer  the  remnants  of  that
offering  as  pinda  to his ancestors, and then feed  the  brahmana
Vaisnavas.   These  activities are favourable for  a  householder's
devotional service.  When these smarta rituals may be performed  in
the  context  of  devotional service.  Then that  are  not  at  all
unfavourable  to  pure  devotional  service.   Ordinary  activities
should  be  done  with  a  sense  of detachment  and  renunciation.
Spiritual  activities  should be performed in  the  association  of
devotees.   Then  one will not be at fault.  Look.   Most  of  Lord
Caitanya   Mahaprabhu's   personal  associates   were   householder
devotees.  From time without beginning many great rajarsis (saintly
kings)  and  devarsis  (divine sages)  were  householder  devotees.
Dhruva  Maharaja, Prahlada Maharaja, the Pandavas, and many  others
were  all  householders.   Householder devotees  of  the  Lord  are
worshipped by all the world.
      Yadava  dasa: If householder devotees are so worshipable  and
qualified  to attain all spiritual love, then why do some  devotees
renounce householder life?
      Ananta dasa: Among the householder devotees, for some  it  is
appropriate  to renounce household life.  However, in the  material
world  the  number of these devotees is very small and  association
with them is very rare.
      Yadava dasa: What makes a man qualified to renounce household
life?
      Ananta  dasa:  Human beings have two kinds of activities:  1.
external  activities, and 2. internal activities.  In the  language
of  the  Vedas  these activities are called "parak" and  "pratyak".
When  a  pure  spirit  soul  forgets its original  spiritual  form,
misidentifies  himself  as  a  subtle  material  body   (of   mind,
intelligence, and false ego), and, exits through the  door  of  the
material  senses,  he becomes attracted to the  external  world  of
material  sense  objects.  These are called "external  activities".
When the direction is reversed, and the soul goes from the material
sense  objects  to the mind and then to the original  form  of  the
soul, then these are called "internal activities".  As long as  the
desire to perform external activities is strong, one should stay in
the  association  of  devotees, and without offense  perform  these
external activities with the idea that this material world is  Lord
Krsna's property.  By thus taking shelter of devotional service  to
Lord  Krsna, in a very short time the external direction  of  one's
activities becomes reversed and one's activities are then  directed
inward.   When  one  is  thus fully engaged in  internal  spiritual
activities,  he becomes qualified to renounce household  life.   If
one tries to renounce household life before one reaches that stage,
then there is the danger that he will fall down.  Household life is
then a school where one gains experience and learns the true nature
of  the spirit soul.  When the education is complete, one may leave
the school.
      Yadava dasa: What are the symptoms of a devotee qualified  to
renounce household life?
      Ananta  dasa:  The  first symptom  is  that  1.  one  is  not
enthusiastic to associate with women.  Other symptoms are: 2. mercy
to   all  living  entities,  3.  considering  that  activities   to
accumulate money are not very important, 4. endeavouring to  attain
a  home and clothing only when they are genuinely needed, 5.  faith
in  Lord Krsna, 6. love and devotion for Lord Krsna, 7. considering
that  it  is not good to associate with worldly people, 8. thinking
praise  and  criticism  are  the  same,  8.  aversion  to  material
activities, and 9. not being concerned whether one lives  or  dies.
These  symptoms  are  described  in  the  following  words  of  the
scriptures (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.45, 3.25.22 and 11.2.55):
       "A   person  advanced  in  devotional  service  sees  within
everything  the  soul  of  all souls, the  Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead,  Sri Krsna.  Consequently he always sees the form  of  the
Supreme  Personality  of Godhead as the cause  of  all  causes  and
understands that all things are situated in Him."*
      "Such  a sadhu engages in staunch devotional service  to  the
Lord without deviation.  For the sake of the Lord he renounces  all
other  connections,  such  as  family  relationships  and  friendly
acquaintances within the world."*
      "Hari,  the  Supreme  Personality of  Godhead,  who  destroys
everything inauspicious for His devotees, does not leave the hearts
of  His  devotees  even if they remember Him and  chant  about  Him
inattentively.  This is because the rope of love always  binds  the
Lord within the devotees' hearts.  Such devotees should be accepted
as most elevated."*
      When these qualities manifest in a householder devotee,  that
devotee finds himself unable to continue with his household duties.
At that time he renounces household life.  Such a renounced devotee
is  rare.   Association  with  such a  devotee  brings  great  good
fortune.
      Yadava  dasa:  Nowadays I see that some  young  men  renounce
household  life,  accept  the garments of  a  renunciant,  build  a
temple,  and  serve the Lord.  As time passes they eventually  fall
into  evil association with women, but they do not give up chanting
the  holy names of Lord Hari.  To maintain the temple they beg alms
at   different   places.    Are  such  devotees   householders   or
renunciants?
     Ananta dasa: You ask many questions at once.  Can I reply in a
single  answer?  Being young or old has no bearing on renunciation.
By  purification  in past lives or in this life  a  young  man  may
become  qualified to renounce household life.  From his very  birth
Sukadeva Gosvami was qualified for renunciation.  One should see if
the qualification is genuinely there.  It should not be artificial.
If  he  is  genuinely renounced, there is no harm in  a  young  man
accepting the renounced order.
      Yadava  dasa:  What  is  genuine  renunciation  and  what  is
artificial renunciation?
      Ananta  dasa: Genuine renunciation is strong.   It  does  not
break  in any situation.  Artificial renunciation is based  on  the
desire  to  be  honoured by others.  This kind of  renunciation  is
marked  by cheating and impiety.  Thinking "a devotee who renounces
household  life  is worshipped and respected,"  and  hoping  to  be
worshipped  in  this way, a man artificially renounces  the  world.
Such  renunciation brings no benefit.  Rather, it is the source  of
great  inauspiciousness.  As soon as he  attains  his  end  and  he
accepts  the  order of renunciation, his qualifications  disappear.
From that moment his true wickedness is manifested.
      Yadava  dasa: When a devotee renounces family life should  he
accept the garments of a renunciant?
     Ananta dasa: When he has definitely thrown far away the desire
for  household  life,  a  devotee may live  in  the  forest  (as  a
renunciant) or he may live at home (as a householder).   In  either
situation he remains a renounced soul, who has nothing to  do  with
the  material  world.   Such a great devotee  purifies  the  entire
world.  Among these renounced souls some accept the external  signs
of  the  renounced order and wear the kaupina and kantha.   At  the
time  of accepting the kaupina and kantha, they take a firm vow  of
renunciation in the presence of other renounced Vaisnavas.  This is
called  "entering the renounced asrama" or "accepting the  garments
of  a  renunciant".  If one accepts the garments of  a  renunciant,
what is the harm?  One who has thus renounced the world should  not
stay in contact with his relatives.  He should stay away from them.
He  should  not  desire to enter either his home or  another's.   A
person  who  is genuinely renounced should be cautious  in  dealing
with  others.  A person advanced in renunciation does not  need  to
wear the garments of a renunciant.  Still, for some persons wearing
the  garments  of  renunciation is  useful.   It  is  said  (Srimad
Bhagavatam 4.29.45):
      "When a person is fully engaged in devotional service, he  is
favoured by the Lord, who bestows His causeless mercy.  At  such  a
time,  the  awakened devotee gives up all material  activities  and
ritualistic performances mentioned in the Vedas."*
      Yadava  dasa: From whom should one accept the garments  of  a
renunciant?
      Ananta  dasa: One should accept the garments of a  renunciant
from  a  Vaisnava who has renounced household life.  A  householder
devotee  has  not  experienced the ways of one  who  has  renounced
household  life,  therefore a householder devotee should  not  give
initiation  into  the  renounce asrama.  The  reason  for  this  is
written  in  these  words  of the scriptures  (Sri  Brahma-vaivarta
Purana):
      "If  one  teaches a religious principle he does  not  himself
follow, that teaching pushes the world closer to destruction."
      Yadava  dasa: What thoughts arise in the mind of a  spiritual
master who is about to give initiation into the renounce asrama?
     Ananta dasa: First the spiritual master should see whether the
disciple is qualified.  Has this householder devotee been able,  by
engaging in devotional service, to control his mind and senses  and
act in a spiritual way?  Is he free of the desire to associate with
a  woman?  Has he uprooted the thirst for money and the desire  toe
at  sumptuous  foods?   The spiritual master  will  stay  near  the
disciple  and observe him for some day.  When he knows for  certain
that  the disciple is qualified, the spiritual master will initiate
him  into  the renounced order.  He will not initiate any  disciple
before  knowing  that he is qualified.  If he gives an  unqualified
person  initiation into the renounced order, the  spiritual  master
himself will fall down.
      Yadava dasa: Now I see.  Accepting the renounced order is not
simply  a  matter of speaking words with one's mouth.  It  is  very
difficult.   Pretenders  who  are not  qualified  to  be  spiritual
masters  are making it a common thing.  Now is only the  beginning.
No one knows what will be the end.
      Ananta dasa: In order to keep this system pure, Lord Caitanya
Mahaprabhu punished Chota Haridasa, whose offense was very  slight.
The   followers  of  Lord  Caitanya  should  always  remember   the
punishment of Chota Haridasa.
      Yadava dasa: After accepting the order of renunciation should
one build a temple and worship the Deity of the Lord?
      Ananta  dasa:  No.  A person who has accepted  the  renounced
order  should  live by begging every day.  In that  way  he  should
maintain  his life.  He will net enter a situation of dealing  with
material  affairs, as will come from building a  temple.   He  will
live  in  a  secluded  cottage,  or  in  a  temple  managed  by   a
householder.   He  will  not do anything that requires  money.   He
will always offenselessly chant the holy names of Lord Krsna.
      Yadava dasa: What do you say about a renunciant who builds  a
temple and then lives like a householder?
      Ananta  dasa:  I say he is a person who eats his  own  vomit.
First he vomits and then he eats what he has vomited.
     Yadava dasa: Is he not a Vaisnava?
     Ananta dasa: He has become a materialist.  He breaks the rules
of  scripture  and the rules of being a Vaisnava.  Why  should  you
associate  with him?  He has renounced the ways of pure  devotional
service  and  accepted the role of a cheater.  How is he  like  the
Vaisnavas?
     Yadava dasa: If he has not given up chanting the holy names of
Lord Hari, how can you say he has ceased to be a Vaisnava?
      Ananta  dasa:  Chanting  the holy  names  of  Lord  Hari  and
committing  offenses to the holy name of Lord  Hari  are  different
things.  When a person commits sin on the strength of chanting  the
holy  name,  that is an offense to the holy name.  You should  stay
always very far away from offenses to the holy name.
       Yadava  dasa:  Should  his  household  life  not  be  called
"household life dedicated to Lord Krsna?"
      Ananta dasa: It should not be called that.  In household life
dedicated  to  Lord Krsna there is no cheating or hypocrisy.   That
household  life  is completely honest and sincere.  That  household
life is not based on an offense.
      Yadava  dasa:  Then  I suppose he is inferior  to  a  regular
householder devotee.
      Ananta  dasa: He is not a devotee. How can you  consider  his
status, high or low, among the devotees?
     Yadava dasa: How can he be rescued?
      Ananta dasa: When he gives up all his offenses, always chants
the  holy  name, and sheds tears of repentance, he may  be  counted
again among the devotees.
     Yadava dasa: O saintly babaji, householder devotees live under
the  shelter  of the varnasrama system.  May a householder  devotee
leave the varnasrama system?
      Ananta  dasa:  Ah! The Vaisnava religion is  very  broad  and
generous.  Another name for the Vaisnava religion is "Jaiva-dharma"
(the  religion for all human beings).  This means that every  human
being  is  qualified to join the Vaisnava religion.  Even outcastes
may  embrace  the Vaisnava religion and live as householders.   For
them  there is no varnasrama.  They who break the varnasrama  rules
of   sannyasa  may,  by  associating  with  devotees,  attain  pure
devotional  service.  Then they may be householder  devotees.   For
them  there are no rules of varnasrama.  They who because of  their
misdeeds  have  left the varnasrama system may  still,  along  with
their  children,  take shelter of pure devotional  service  in  the
association  of the devotees.  Then they are householder  devotees.
But  they  are  not  part  of the varnasrama  system.   Householder
devotees  are  of  two  kinds: 1. they who  follow  the  varnasrama
system, and 2. they who do not follow the varnasrama system.
     Yadava dasa: Of these two which is the best?
     Ananta dasa: He who has more devotion is the best.  If neither
have any devotion then according to the material point of view  the
follower of varnasrama is better because he is pious and the  other
is an outcaste.  However, from the spiritual point of view they are
both degraded, for neither has any devotion.
      Yadava  dasa: Is a householder devotee allowed  to  wear  the
garments of a renunciant?
     Ananta dasa: No, for he cheats himself and he cheats the world
also.   Those are his two faults.  If a householder wears a kaupina
and  the  other garments of renunciant then that householder  mocks
and insults the true renunciants.
      Yadava dasa: O saintly babaji, do the scriptures describe how
one should accept the garments of a renunciant?
     Ananta dasa: Not very specifically.  People of every caste may
become Vaisnavas.  However, in the opinion of the scriptures,  none
but  the  brahmanas  may  accept sannyasa.   In  Srimad  Bhagavatam
(7.11.35)  after  describing the features of the different  castes,
Narada Muni explains:
      "If  one  shows  the symptoms of being a brahmana,  ksatriya,
vaisya or sudra, as described above, even if he has appeared  in  a
different class, he should be accepted according to those  symptoms
of classification."*
      This  verse  means, "A person's caste is  determined  by  his
personal characteristics, and they were previously described.  Thus
the  scriptures declare that a person born in a non brahmana family
should be considered a brahmana if he is seen to have the qualities
of  a  brahmana,  and that such a brahmana ma become  qualified  to
accept sannyasa.  This is the opinion of all the scriptures.   From
the  spiritual point of view, this is proved.  Still, they who look
at things from the material point of view do not accept it.
       Yadava  dasa:  Candi  dasa,  they  certainly  answered  your
question.
     Candi dasa: Of all the instructions that came from the saintly
and   honourable  babaji's  mouth,  this  much  I  understand:  The
individual soul is eternally the servant of Lord Krsna.  Forgetting
Krsna,  the  soul takes shelter of a material body and,  pushed  by
maya's  modes  of  nature, he experiences  material  happiness  and
distress.   The result of his material activities is that  he  must
wear  around  his  neck  a garland of birth, old  age,  and  death.
Sometimes  he  is born in an exalted situation and sometimes  in  a
lowly situation.  He takes birth  after birth, and in each birth he
has  a  new  conception of who he is.  As he  stays  in  a  fragile
material body that may be torn apart at any moment, hunger, thirst,
and  other  promptings push him to act in various ways.  Unable  to
attain  what he wishes, he is troubled in many ways in this  world.
His  material body grows old and torments him in many ways.   Again
and  again quarrelling with wife and children, he is pushed so  far
that  sometimes he even commits suicide.  To get money he sometimes
commits  many  sins.   He suffers punishment  from  the  king,  the
insults of his neighbours, and great variety of other troubles.  He
is  separated from his loved ones, he loses his wealth, and  he  is
robbed by thieves.  Again and again he suffers many troubles.  When
he  grows old his relatives refuse to care for him.  This makes him
suffer greatly.  His old body is troubled by mucus, rheumatism  and
host  of other troubles.  Finally he dies.  Then he is again pushed
into  a  mother's  womb.  Still, as long as he  is  alive  in  that
material body, lust, anger, greed, delusion, pride and envy  remain
very  powerful  and they refuse to give any place to  intelligence.
That is life in the material world.  Now I know the meaning of  the
phrase  "the material world".  Again and again I offer my  dandavat
obeisances to the saintly babaji.  It is the Vaisnavas who are  the
true  spiritual  teachers  of  the world.   By  the  mercy  of  the
Vaisnavas I have learned the truth about the material world.
      After hearing the instructions of Ananta dasa Babaji, all the
Vaisnavas  called  out, "Well done!" and began to  chant  the  holy
names of Lord Hari.  Gradually may Vaisnavas gathered there.   Then
Lahiri Mahasaya sang a song he wrote:
      "Fallen  into  the horrible material world, a person  suffers
without  end.   Still, if he associates with devotees and  worships
Lord Hari, a person will make his sufferings come to an end.
     "The heart burns in the fire of sense gratification.  The fire
burns  more and more.  Avoiding offenses, chant the holy  names  of
Lord Krsna.  That will pour water on the fire.
      "He  who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya
and  Lord  Nityananda is my shelter in life and death.   Thus  says
Kalidasa."
     As these words were sung, Candi dasa began to dance with great
joy.   He  happily  rolled  in the dust  touched  by  the  Vaisnava
babajis'  feet.   He wept.  Everyone said, "Candi dasa  has  become
very fortunate."
      After  some time Yadava dasa Babaji said, "Come, Candi  dasa,
now  we must cross the river."  Candi dasa joked, "If you carry  me
across,  I  will  cross."   After offering dandavat  obeisances  to
Pradyumna-kunja, the two of them left.  There they  saw  Damayanti.
Again and again offering dandavat obeisances, she said, "Alas,  Why
did I take birth as a woman?  If I had taken birth as a man I could
have  easily entered this forest grove, seen the saintly  devotees,
touched the dust from their feet, and made my life a great success.
Birth after birth I will serve the Vaisnavas in Sri Navadvipa.   In
that way I will pass my days."
      Then  Yadava dasa said, "Ah! Godruma is a very sacred  place.
Simply by entering this place, a soul attains pure devotion.   This
Godruma  is  the  pastime place of the master of  our  lives:  Lord
Caitanya, the son of Saci. It is identical with holy Vrndavana, the
village of cowherds.  Understanding this truth, Srila Prabodhananda
Sarasvati wrote the following prayer (Sri Navadvipa-sataka 36):
      "Fools,  the path of the world and the Vedas will  bring  you
only  trouble! Give up everything and make yourself a  leaf-hut  in
Sri Godruma in Gauda-desa!"
      The  three of them crossed the Ganga and returned to  Kuliya-
grama.   From  that day forward Candi dasa and his  wife  Damayanti
became  wonderful Vaisnavas.  Understanding the truth  about  them,
the  illusory  material world no longer touched them.   Service  to
Vaisnavas,  continual chanting of the holy name of Lord Krsna,  and
mercy  to  all  living  entities  were  the  ornaments  they  wore.
Glorious became that merchant couple!  Glorious is the mercy of the
Vaisnavas! Glorious is the holy name of Lord Hari! Glorious is  the
land of Sri Navadvipa!
Chapter Eight
Nitya-dharma O Vyavahar
Eternal Religion and Ordinary Activities
      One afternoon, after honouring prasada, the Vaisnavas of  Sri
Godruma  gathered in a secluded forest grove on the Northeast  side
of Sri Gaura Lake.  There Lahiri Mahasaya sang a song that awakened
in them the ecstatic love of Vraja.  He sang:
      "How  many pastimes did Lord Caitanya enjoy here with Advaita
and  the  other devotees?  Here He chanted the names of Lord  Krsna
and danced.  As Lord Krsna rescued Kaliya, here our Lord rescued  a
crocodile."
      When  the song was ended the Vaisnavas discussed the  similar
natures  of Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya's pastimes.  Then  two  or
four  Vaisnavas  from Baragachi came there.  They offered  dandavat
obeisances,  first  to Gaura lake and then to the  Vaisnavas.   The
Vaisnavas  honoured  them  and offered  sitting  places.   In  that
secluded  grove  was  an old banyan tree.   Around  its  roots  the
Vaisnavas  had  built  a  stone platform.  They  all  informed  the
visitors  from Baragachi that the tree was honoured with  the  name
Nitai-bata  (Lord  Nityananda's banyan tree), for  Lord  Nityananda
liked to sit under it.
      Sitting  under Lord Nityananda's banyan tree,  the  Vaisnavas
talked  about  spiritual life.  Among the Vaisnavas from  Baragachi
was  a  youth who wanted to ask a question.  He suddenly  said,  "I
want  to  ask  a question.  Someone please answer it  and  make  me
happy."
      In that secluded grove lived Hari dasa Babaji, who was a very
learned scholar.  He almost never left that place.  He was almost a
hundred years old.  On some rare occasions he would go to Pradyumna-
kunja and meet with the paramahamsa babaji.  He had personally seen
Lord Nityananda sitting under that banyan tree.  He had one desire.
He wished that when he left his body it would be at that place.  He
said,  "Son,  now  that  the paramahamsa babaji's  associates  have
assembled  here,  why should you worry about  the  answer  to  your
question?"
      Then  the  Vaisnava from Baragachi asked his question.   "The
Vaisnava religion is the eternal religion.  How should a person who
has  taken  shelter  of the Vaisnava religion act  in  relation  to
others.  I wish to understand this very thoroughly."
      Glancing  for a moment at saintly Vaisnava dasa Babaji,  Hari
dasa  Babaji said, "O Vaisnava dasa, nowadays no one in  Bengal  is
learned  and  devoted like you.  You should answer  this  question.
You  had  the association of Srila Sarasvati Gosvami and  you  were
personally  taught by the paramahamsa babaji.  You  are  thus  very
fortunate.  You have certainly attained the mercy of Lord  Caitanya
Mahaprabhu."
      Saintly Vaisnava dasa Babaji humbly said, "O great soul,  you
personally  saw  Lord  Nityananda, who is an  incarnation  of  Lord
Balarama.   In  the assembly of many great souls  you  taught  many
students.  Please be merciful and give some instruction to us.  All
the Vaisnavas there begged Hari dasa Babaji to answer the question.
The   babaji  at  last  agreed.   After  first  offering   dandavat
obeisances  to Lord Nityananda under that banyan tree, the  saintly
babaji began to speak.
      "Addressing them all as "servant of Lord Krsna", I  offer  my
obeisances to every soul in this material world.  It is  said  (Sri
Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 6.85):
      "Some accept Him whereas others do not, yet everyone is  Lord
Krsna's servant."*
      "I  place  upon my head these words of the saintly  devotees.
Although  every soul is by nature a perfect servant of Lord  Krsna,
some  souls,  because of ignorance of bewilderment, do  not  accept
that  they  are  His  servant.  They are one group.   Other  souls,
however,  do  accept that they are His servants.  They are  another
group.  Thus, in this material world the souls may be divided  into
two  groups: 1. they who turn away from Lord Krsna, and 2. they who
are  eager to approach Lord Krsna.  In the material world  most  of
the souls prefer to turn away from Lord Krsna.  Many of these souls
do  not  accept any religion.  There is no need to say  much  about
these  persons.  They have no idea what should and  should  not  be
done.  For them their own personal happiness is the be-all-and-end-
all  of  their lives.  Persons who accept religion have an idea  of
what  should  be done.  For their benefit, the great Vaisnava  Manu
has written (Sri Manu-samhita 6.92):
      "The  ten  features of religious life are:  1.  patience,  2.
forgiveness, 3. self-control, 4. honesty, 5. cleanliness, 6. sense-
control,  7. knowledge, 8. wisdom, 9. truthfulness and 10.  freedom
from anger."
      "Among  these,  six are features that benefit the  performer.
They  are: 1. patience, 2. self-control, 3. cleanliness, 4.  sense-
control,  5. knowledge and 6. wisdom.  The remaining four are  done
for  the benefit of others.  They are: 1. patience, 2. honesty,  3.
truthfulness, and 4 freedom from anger.  Devotional service to Lord
Hari  is not clearly mentioned in this list of ten features.  These
ten  features of religious life are taught here for the benefit  of
ordinary  people.   It cannot be said that by faithfully  following
the  teaching of this verse one will attain perfect auspiciousness,
for Sri Visnu-dharmottara Purana explains:
      "To  live  for five days as a devotee of Lord  Visnu  is  far
better  than to live for a thousand kalpas as a person who  has  no
devotion for Lord Kesava."
      "They who are not devotees of Lord Krsna cannot be said  even
to  be human beings.  They who are not devotees are all counted  as
animals  walking  on  two  legs.  It  is  said  (Srimad  Bhagavatam
2.3.19):
      "Men  who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise  those
men  who  never listen to the transcendental pastimes of  Lord  Sri
Krsna, the deliverer from evils."*
      "Here the question is not what these persons should or should
not  do.   The question is only how should persons who  have  taken
shelter of the path of devotional service act in relation to  these
persons.  Of that I will speak.  They who have taken shelter of the
path  of  devotional service may be divided into three  groups:  1.
kanistha  (neophyte),  2. madhyama (intermediate),  and  3.  uttama
(advanced).   Although  he  has  taken  shelter  of  the  path   of
devotional  service, a neophyte is not yet a true devotee.   He  is
described in these words (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.47):
      "A  prakrta,  or materialistic devotee, does not purposefully
study the sastra and try to understand the actual standard of  pure
devotional  service.  Consequently he does not show proper  respect
to  advanced  devotees.   He may, however,  follow  the  regulative
principles learned from his spiritual master or from his family who
worships  the  Deity.   He  is  to be considered  on  the  material
platform,  although he is trying to advance in devotional  service.
Such a person is a bhakta-praya (neophyte devotee), or bhaktabhasa,
for he is a little enlightened by Vaisnava philosophy."*
      "Thus  one who faithfully worships the Deity of the Lord  but
does not faithfully worship the Lord's devotees, is a materialistic
devotee  (prakrta-bhakta).  The conclusion, then, is that faith  is
the seed of devotional service.  To faithfully worship the Deity of
the  Lord  is to engage in devotional service.  Still, if one  does
not  also  worship the Lord's devotees, his worship  is  note  pure
devotional service.  His worship is not devotional service  in  its
complete form.  His worship is merely stepping into the entrance of
the house of devotional service.  The scriptures (Srimad Bhagavatam
10.84.13) explain:
     "A human being who identifies this body made of three elements
with the self, who considers the by-products of the body to be  his
kinsmen,  who considers the land of birth as worshipable,  and  who
goes  to  the place of pilgrimage simply to take bath, rather  than
meet men of transcendental knowledge there, is to be considered  as
an ass or a cow."*
      "The  meaning is this:  Although in the beginning  devotional
service  consists  of worship of the deity and  nothing  else,  and
although  dry,  materialistic logic  is  not  recommended,  for  it
crushes  the  heart into powder, it is nevertheless necessary  that
one  understand that the Deity of the Lord and service to the Deity
are  pure and spiritual.  All living entities in the material world
are  spiritual by nature.  Among these living entities they who are
devotees of Lord Krsna especially manifest their pure and spiritual
nature.   The  devotee and Lord Krsna are two  different  pure  and
spiritual  identities.  To understand their true spiritual  natures
one  must understand the relationships between the material  world,
the  individual soul and Lord Krsna.  A person who understand these
relationships and simultaneously worships the Deity of  Lord  Krsna
and  serves  the Lord's devotees acts rightly.  When one faithfully
worships  the spiritual truth in this way, it is said that  he  has
"faith in the scriptures".  A person who worships the deity of  the
Lord  but does not understand the relationships that exist  between
the  various  spiritual entities has only a materialistic  kind  of
faith.   Although  he  stands  at the  entrance  of  the  house  of
devotional  service,  his service is not pure  devotional  service.
That is the conclusion.  A person thus standing at the entrance  to
the  house of devotional service is described in these words of the
scriptures:
      "A  person  who  has accepted a Vaisnava initiation  and  who
devotedly worships Lord Visnu is said by the wise to be a Vaisnava.
All others are not Vaisnavas."
      "Persons born in families who generation after generation are
initiated  by  their family priest in the chanting of Visnu-mantras
and who thus worship the deity of the Lord with materialistic faith
are  neophyte (kanistha) or materialistic devotees.  They  are  not
pure  devotees.   Over  them the shadow of  devotional  service  is
strongly  cast.  However, the reflection of devotional  service  is
not manifested in them, for the reflection of devotional service is
counted  among  the  offenses.  Therefore  they  who  possess  this
reflection  are  not  Vaisnavas.   However,  from  the  shadow   of
devotional  service  may  come a great good  fortune,  for  such  a
neophyte  devotee  may gradually become an intermediate  (madhyama)
and eventually an advanced (uttama) devotee.
      However  that  may  be, persons at that  stage  of  spiritual
advancement are not yet pure devotees.  They may worship the  Deity
of the Lord with material faith and they may manifest the ten signs
of  piety in dealing with ordinary persons.  Still, the scriptures'
descriptions of the devotees' ways are not meant to describe  them.
To  convert non-devotees into devotees is not in their power.   The
ways of the intermediate (madhyama) devotees are described in these
words (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.46):
      "An  intermediate, second-class devotee shows  love  for  the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, is friendly to all devotees, and is
very  merciful to neophytes and ignorant people.  The  intermediate
devotee neglects those who are envious of devotional service."*
      The behaviour described in this verse is the behaviour of one
who follows the eternal religion.  Temporary or material activities
are  not described here.  In a Vaisnava's life such behaviour  must
be  followed.   Other kinds of behaviour, as long as  they  do  not
contradict this behaviour, may be adopted when necessary.
      "A  Vaisnava relates to four kinds of persons: 1. the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, 2. the devotees who are surrendered to  the
Lord,  3.  innocent  persons,  and  4.  they  who  are  enemies  of
devotional  service.   To these four kinds of  persons  a  Vaisnava
shows   love,  friendship,  mercy  and  neglect.   To  the  Supreme
Personality  of  Godhead he shows love, to  the  devotee  he  shows
friendship, to the innocent people in general he shows  mercy,  and
to persons filled with hate he shows neglect.
      "First  he shows love to the Supreme Personality of  Godhead.
To  Lord  Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master  of
all,   he  shows  love  (prema).   The  word  'prema'  means  'pure
devotional   service."   The  characteristics  of  pure  devotional
service are described in these words (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu):
      "One  should  render  transcendental loving  service  to  the
Supreme  Lord  Krsna  favourably and without  desire  for  material
profit   or  gain  through  fruitive  activities  or  philosophical
speculation.  That is called pure devotional service."*
       "These   words  describe  the  devotional  service   of   an
intermediate (madhyama) Vaisnava, service that reaches  up  to  the
stages  of  ecstasy (bhava) and pure spiritual  love  (prema).   By
itself,  without  the  addition of the  qualities  described  here,
worshipping the Deity of the Lord with faith is the activity  of  a
neophyte devotee.  This means that a neophyte devotee does not have
the  qualities  of  pure devotional service, which  are:  1.  being
without  desire  for  material  profit  or  gain  through  fruitive
activities   or   philosophical  speculation,  and   2.   rendering
transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Krsna favourably.
However,  on  the  day that these qualities are manifested  in  his
heart,  such  a  person  may be called an  intermediate  (madhyama)
devotee.    That  is  how  a  materialistic  devotee   becomes   an
intermediate devotee.  As long as these qualities do not  arise  in
his  heart, he is a materialistic devotee.  This means that  he  is
considered only a shadow of a true devotee or a shadow  of  a  true
Vaisnava.  Here the word "krsnanusilanam" refers to spiritual  love
(prema).   However,  the  word  "anukulyena"  refers  to  all  four
qualities of an intermediate devotee: 1. favourable love  for  Lord
Krsna, 2. friendship, 3. mercy and 4. neglect.
      "The second of these qualities is that one is friendly to the
devotees,  who are surrendered to the Supreme Lord.  Any person  in
whom  pure devotional service is manifested is considered a devotee
surrendered  to  the  Supreme  Personality  of  Godhead.   Neophyte
devotees are neither pure devotees nor are they surrendered to  the
Lord.   Their  tendency is to disrespect the  true  pure  devotees.
Therefore one should make friendship with intermediate and advanced
devotees only.  In answering a Kulina-grama devotee's question, Sri
Caitanya  Mahaprabhu  described  the  neophyte,  intermediate,  and
advanced devotees.  He explained that the intermediate and advanced
devotees are counted among the true Vaisnavas, whereas the neophyte
devotees,  who do not know anything beyond worshipping  the  Deity,
are  not  yet true Vaisnavas.  The true holy name of Lord does  not
appear  on the mouths of such worshippers of the Deity.   The  name
that  appears  on their mouths is only the shadow of  Lord  Krsna's
holy name (chaya-namabhasa).  Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered  the
intermediate  (madhyama) householder devotees to  serve  all  three
classes of devotees, the three classes being: 1. a person on  whose
mouth the holy name of Lord is heard even only once, 2.a person  on
whose mouth the holy name of Lord Krsna is heard always, and  3.  a
person  the  sight of whom inspires one to chant the holy  name  of
Lord  Krsna.  One should serve a Vaisnava who chants only a  shadow
of  Lord  Krsna's holy name.  One should serve only a Vaisnava  who
takes  shelter of the pure holy name of Lord Krsna.  As  there  are
different  kinds  of  Vaisnava, so there  are  different  kinds  of
service to Vaisnavas.  The "making friendship" includes associating
with Vaisnavas, conversing with them, and serving them.  The moment
one  sees  a  pure Vaisnava one should greet him, honour  him,  and
offered both a sitting place and conversation.  One must serve  him
in  all  these ways.  One should never hate, envy, or  insult  him.
One  should not disrespect him if his body is ugly or if he suffers
from some disease.
      "The third of these qualities is that one is merciful to  the
innocent  people  in  general.   The  phrase  "innocent  people  in
general"  means  "they who do not understand the spiritual  truth",
"they who are bewildered", and they who are foolish".  Persons  who
are  not  educated,  have  not entered into  the  theories  of  the
mayavadis  and other offenders, have not learned how  to  hate  the
devotees  and devotional service, but, being overcome  by  powerful
false-ego  and false-possessiveness, do not yet have faith  in  the
Supreme  Personality of Godhead are called "the innocent people  in
general".   Even  if one is a great scholar, if he  does  not  have
faith  in  the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is counted  among
the  "innocent  people in general".  Even though he has  approached
the  entrance  to the house of devotional service, a  materialistic
neophyte devotee may also be counted among the "innocent people  in
general",  for such a devotee has not yet attained pure  devotional
service  and does not yet clearly understand his relationship  with
the   Supreme  Personality  of  Godhead.   When  such   a   devotee
understands  his  relationship  with  the  Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead,  associates with pure devotees, and chants the  holy  name
with  purity,  then  his status as one of the "innocent  people  in
general"  is  thrown  far  away and he attains  the  status  of  an
intermediate  (madhyama)  Vaisnava.   For  an  intermediate  it  is
absolutely essential that he be merciful to the innocent people  in
general.   As  far as possible he should invite them to  his  home.
Even  that is not enough.  He should show mercy to such persons  by
helping  them  to  attain  faith in  pure  devotional  service  and
attraction  for the pure holy name of the Lord.  Because  they  are
not  learned in the scriptures, the innocent people in general  may
easily  fall  down  because  of association  with  wicked  persons.
Therefore  the  intermediate  devotee should  mercifully  give  his
association to the innocent people and gradually allow them to hear
the  glories  of  the holy names and the various teachings  of  the
scriptures.   A diseased person cannot cure himself.   He  must  be
cured  by a physician.  If the patient sometimes speaks angrily  or
commits other like offenses, he is to be forgiven.  In the same way
if  an  innocent  person  sometimes act improperly,  he  is  to  be
forgiven.  This is called mercy.  An innocent person may have  many
misconceptions.   He may have faith in the karma-kanda  portion  of
the  Vedas,  faith  in  various  non-devotional  philosophies,   an
inclination  to  worship the Deity of the Lord in order  to  attain
various  material  desires, faith in yoga  and  other  like  paths,
disinterest  in associating with pure Vaisnavas, or  attachment  to
varnasrama  and other like things.  In this way he  may  have  many
different kinds of misconceptions.  When by good association, mercy
and   spiritual   instruction   he   gradually   gives   up   these
misconceptions,   the   neophyte   devotee   quickly   becomes   an
intermediate devotee.  Then he is a pure devotee.  His  worship  of
the  Deity form of Lord Hari was thus the foundation upon which  he
built the house of all spiritual auspiciousness.  Of this there  is
no  doubt.  He does not make the mistake of trying to follow one of
the  myriad  of competing philosophies.  Because he does  not  make
this  mistake, he as a scent of true faith.  When he  worships  the
Deity  of Lord Hari, a follower of the mayavadi philosophy or other
like  philosophies does not have even the slightest true  faith  in
the  Deity.   Such a person is an offender.  It is for this  reason
that  Srimad  Bhagavatam (ii.2.47) describes him  with  the  phrase
(sraddhayehate"  (He  worships with faith).  In  their  hearts  the
followers  of  the mayavadi philosophy and other like  philosophies
think,  "The  supreme spirit has no form.  The Deity form  that  we
worship  is merely the product of our imagination."  How  can  such
persons have faith in the Deity form of the Lord?  In this way  the
mayavadi's  worship  of the Deity and the most neophyte  Vaisnava's
worship  of  the Deity are very different.  It is for this  reason,
that,  even  though  he  does not have the  various  virtues  of  a
Vaisnava,  at  least  he is not a mayavadi, that  the  neophyte  is
called a "materialistic Vaisnava".  In this way he is considered  a
Vaisnava.   By  the  mercy  of saintly devotees,  such  a  neophyte
gradually becomes elevated.  This is inevitable.  Second class pure
Vaisnavas  are  inevitably merciful to  them.   Then  the  neophyte
devotee's  worship of the Deity and chanting of  Lord  Hari's  holy
name do no remain shadows of the real thing.  Quickly they manifest
their true spiritual nature.
      "The  fourth of these qualities is that one neglects  hateful
persons.   One  should understand the different  kinds  of  hateful
persons.   Envy is a synonym of hatred.  Hatred is the opposite  of
love.   The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the only true  object
of  love.   The  opposite of love for Him is hatred of  Him.   This
hatred is manifested in five ways:
      1. to not believe in the existence of the Supreme Personality
of Godhead.
     2. to believe that the living entity himself has created God
     3. to not believe that God has a form
      4.  to  not  believe that the individual souls are  eternally
subordinate to God
     5. to be merciless
      "Persons  contaminated by hatred do not have  pure  devotion.
Neither  do  they  have  the materialistic devotion  manifested  by
neophytes who worship the Deity.  These five kinds of hatred brings
with   them,  as  a  by  product,  attachment  to  material  sense-
gratification.  It is sometimes seen that the third and  fourth  of
these  kinds of hatred may bring one to austerities so severe  that
one kills himself in the process.  This is seen in the lives of the
mayavadi sannyasis.  How should a pure devotee relate to all  these
hateful persons?  A pure devotee should avoid them.
      "Avoiding  them  does not mean that one should  renounce  all
ordinary  dealings one human being naturally has with another.   It
does  not mean that if a hateful person falls into danger  or  want
one  should  not try to help him.  A householder devotee  has  many
relationships with others.  By marriage he has many relatives.   By
buying  and  selling various goods he has many  relationships.   By
owning  property and protecting animals he has many  relationships.
By  acting to treat diseases and relieve other's sufferings he  has
many  relationships.  The king and his subjects have many kinds  of
relationships.   Avoiding hateful person  does  not  mean  suddenly
renouncing all these different kinds of relationships.  In ordinary
material dealings one may have relationships with such persons, but
in  spiritual  activities such persons should be shunned.   As  the
result  of past karma a family member may be such a hateful person.
Should  such  a  person be cast out of the  family?   No.   Without
becoming  attached,  behave with that  person  as  is  expected  in
ordinary  dealings,  but  do  not  share  that  person's  ideas  of
spiritual life.  In this way one should avoid that person.  Meeting
for  spiritual  activities, conversing about spiritual  activities,
and  helping  and  serving one another in spiritual  life  are  the
different   kinds  of  spiritual  association.    To   avoid   such
association  is called "neglect of hateful persons".  If  he  hears
the  praises  the pure devotional service or teachings  about  pure
devotional service, a person who accepts the philosophy of  hateful
persons will only argue needlessly.  In this way neither he nor you
will  be  benefited.  Avoiding such barren debates, associate  with
him  only  in ordinary material things.  If you say that  you  will
consider such a hateful person among the innocent people in general
and  you will be merciful to him and thus benefit him, then  I  say
you  may  very well harm him and yourself.  If you must try  to  do
good to him, then do it very carefully.
      "An  intermediate (madhyama) pure devotee should act in these
four ways.  If such an intermediate devotee is reluctant to act  in
these ways then he commits the fault of acting improperly, in a way
he is not qualified to act.  Thus he avoids acting properly, in the
ways  he  is  qualified.  This is a great fault, as the  scriptures
explain:
      "One  who  accepts the duties for which he  is  qualified  is
praiseworthy, and who does not is subject to blame.   That  is  the
right conclusion."
      "Thus  an intermediate (madhyama) devotee should perform  the
activities of pure devotional service, follow the scriptures,  love
the  Supreme  Personality  of Godhead, make  friendship  with  pure
devotees,  be  merciful  to the innocent  people  in  general,  and
neglect  persons  who  hate  the Supreme  Personality  of  Godhead.
Different degrees of advancement in devotional service on the  part
of   one's   devotee  friends  may  elicit  different  degrees   of
friendship.  Different degrees of sincerity on the part of innocent
persons  may elicit different degrees of mercy.  Different  degrees
of  hatred  on  the  part of hateful persons may  elicit  different
degrees   of   avoidance.    Considering  these   differences,   an
intermediate  devotee  should behave, in his spiritual  activities,
differently with different persons.  Material activities should  be
performed  honestly  and  they should  be  secondary  to  spiritual
activities."
      Then  Nityananda  dasa from Baragachi asked,  "What  are  the
material  activities of these devotees you have  described?"   Hari
dasa  Babaji replied, "Son, if you ask this question of me, then  I
cannot  give  a good explanation.  I am an old man,  my  memory  is
short, my mind is not powerful, I easily forget."
      Hari  dasa was a very strict babaji.  No fault could ever  be
seen in him.  Still, when this inappropriate question was asked, he
gave this reply.  When they heard his words, everyone was stunned.
      After  again  bowing  down before the  banyan  tree  of  Lord
Nityananda,  Hari  dasa said, "When his love and  devotion  becomes
intensified,  then  an intermediate (madhyama) devotee  becomes  an
advanced  (uttama) devotee.  The qualities of an  advanced  devotee
are written in these words of Srimad Bhagavatam (11.2.45):
       "A   person  advanced  in  devotional  service  sees  within
everything  the  soul  of  all souls, the  Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead,  Sri Krsna.  Consequently he always sees the form  of  the
Supreme  Personality  of Godhead as the cause  of  all  causes  and
understands that all things are situated in Him."*
       An   advanced  (uttama)  Vaisnava  sees  that  the   Supreme
Personality  of  Godhead loves all souls and  all  souls  love  the
Supreme  Personality of Godhead.  For an advanced devotee there  is
no  other  love.   Whatever other kind of love he may  manifest  in
different  situations is all but a transformation of that spiritual
love.   Look.   Srila  Sukadeva Gosvami  is  an  advanced  devotee.
Still, he insulted Kamsa by calling him "the vicious sinner of  the
Bhoja  dynasty".   However, that insult was really manifested  from
love.   It was based on spiritual love and there was not any malice
in  it.   When pure love becomes his entire life, then a person  is
called "the best of devotees".  In this state the differing degrees
of  love,  friendship, mercy, and neglect described before  are  no
longer  manifested.  Now everything is spiritual love.  For such  a
person  there is no difference between neophyte, intermediate,  and
advanced devotees.  Indeed, for him there is no difference  between
devotees and non devotees.  Such a state is very rarely attained.
      A  neophyte devotee does not serve Vaisnavas and an  advanced
devotees does not think that some persons are Vaisnavas and  others
are not.  Therefore it is only the intermediate devotees who honour
and  serve Vaisnavas.  An intermediate devotee must serve the three
kinds  of Vaisnavas:  1. he who once chants the holy name  of  Lord
Krsna, 2. he who always chants the holy name of Lord Krsna, and  3.
he  who, simply by being seen, makes others chant the holy name  of
Lord  Krsna.   Thus  Vaisnavas should be served  according  to  the
degree  of  their advancement, whether they are a good Vaisnava,  a
better Vaisnava, or the best Vaisnava.  No one can judge who  is  a
good Vaisnava and who is an intermediate Vaisnava.  Only an advance
Vaisnava  can  understand  that.   If  an  intermediate  (madhyama)
Vaisnava  tries  to  say  this, he will commit  an  offense.   Lord
Caitanya  Mahaprabhu  hinted  this  in  His  instructions  to   the
residents of Kulina-grama.  All intermediate devotees should honour
that teaching more than even the Vedas.  Someone may ask:  What are
the Vedas, or Sruti?  The answer is given: The Vedas are the orders
of  the  Supreme  Personality of Godhead."   After  speaking  these
words,  Hari  dasa was silent for a moment.  Then the visitor  from
Baragachi said, "May I ask a question?"  Hari dasa Babaji  replied,
"As you like".
      Young  Nityananda dasa asked, "Saintly babaji, what  kind  of
Vaisnava  am  I?   Am  I  a neophyte Vaisnava  or  an  intermediate
Vaisnava?  An advanced Vaisnava I certainly am not."
      Saintly  Hari dasa Babaji smiled and said, "Can a person  who
accepts the name Nityananda dasa not be an advanced Vaisnava?   Our
Nityananda is very merciful.  Even when He is beaten, He gives love
in return.  How can words properly glorify a person who chants Lord
Nityananda's name and becomes His servant.
      Nityananda  dasa:  I would like to know  truthfully  what  my
position is.
      Hari  dasa:  Son,  tell  me  all  about  yourself.   If  Lord
Nityananda gives me the power to say, I will tell you.
      Nityananda dasa: I was born in a lowly family in a village on
the  bank of the Padmavati.  I was married at a young age.   I  did
not  learn  how  to  be  wicked.  When my wife  died,  thoughts  of
renunciation   came to my mind.  In Baragachi I saw many  Vaisnavas
who  had  renounced family life.  Everyone was respectful to  them.
Desiring  to  be honoured like that, and inspired by the  temporary
feeling  of  renunciation my wife's death brought, I  accepted  the
garments of a Vaisnava renunciant.  After some days wickedness came
into  my mind.  My Vaisnava friend was a very good person.  Now  he
stays in Vraja.  He gave me good advice, protected me with his good
association, and kept my mind pure.  Now my mind no longer wants to
leave  the  right path.  It likes to chant a hundred thousand  holy
names  every  day.   I understand that the Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead  and  His holy name are not different.  Both are  perfectly
spiritual.   I  observe ekadasi according to the scriptures  and  I
water  tulasi.  When the Vaisnavas sing the holy names together,  I
join in the singing.  I drink the nectar water that has washed  the
Vaisnava's  feet.  I read Sri Caitanya-mangala.  I  do  not  desire
opulent food and clothing.  I do not like to hear gossip.   When  I
see  how the Vaisnavas are filled with ecstatic love, I also become
ecstatic  and I roll in the dust that has touched their  feet.   In
spite  of  all this, to a certain extent I still desire fame.   Now
please  tell me: To what class of Vaisnava do I belong?  How should
I behave?
      Showing  a  little smile, Hari dasa Babaji said  to  Vaisnava
dasa,  "You  say.   To what class of Vaisnava does Nityananda  dasa
belong?"
     Vaisnava dasa: From what I have heard he has left the neophyte
stage and become an intermediate devotee.
     Hari dasa: I also think that.
      Nityananda dasa: Good.  From the mouth of a great soul I  now
know  my  true position.  Please give your mercy to  me  so  I  may
gradually become an advanced devotee.
     Hari dasa: When you first accepted the garments of a sannyasi,
you  desired material fame.  That inappropriate desire  meant  that
you  were  still  fallen.   In spite of  that,  the  mercy  of  the
Vaisnavas brought auspiciousness to you.
     Nityananda dasa: I still have a slight desire for fame.  In my
mind  I  think, "Bewildered by the tears in my eyes and many  other
symptoms of ecstatic love, the people will worship me."
      Hari  dasa:  You should struggle to renounce those  thoughts.
Don't  keep  thoughts like those.  There is the  danger  they  will
diminish  your devotional service.  If you allow them  to  diminish
your  devotion,  you  will again become a neophyte  devotee.   Even
after  lust, anger, and other vices have left, the desire for  fame
may  stubbornly  stay with a Vaisnava.  It does not  go  away  very
easily.  A single drop of sincere love for the Lord is better  than
an elaborate pretence of that love.
      Touching the dust of Hari dasa Babaji's feet, Nityananda dasa
Babaji said, "Please have mercy on me."  Hari dasa at once embraced
him and made him sit down.  How wonderful is the result attained by
a  Vaisnava's touch!  Tears streamed from Nityananda's dasa's eyes.
Taking  a  blade of grass between his teeth, he said,  "I  am  very
fallen  and  lowly.  I am very fallen."  Hari dasa Babaji  embraced
him  and  wept.   How  wonderful it all was!  Nityananda  dasa  had
attained the true goal of life.  After a short time, when  all  the
symptoms  of  ecstatic love had subsided, in his  heart  Nityananda
dasa  accepted  Sri  Hari  dasa  as  his  spiritual  master.   Then
Nityananda dasa asked a question.
      Nityananda dasa: What are the primary and secondary  features
of a neophyte devotee's devotional service?
      Hari  dasa: The two primary features of a neophyte  devotee's
devotional  service are: 1. faith that the Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead's form is eternal, and 2. worship of the Lord's Deity form.
The  secondary features of a neophyte devotee's devotional  service
are: 1. hearing about the Lord, 2. chanting the Lord's glories,  3.
remembering  the Lord and 4. a host of other activities,  beginning
with offering obeisances to the Lord.
      Nityananda dasa: Without having faith that the Lord's form is
eternal,  no one can be a Vaisnava.  Also, without worshipping  the
Deity  form of the Lord according to the rules of worship,  no  one
can  be a Vaisnava.  I can understand why these two are the primary
features.  However, I do not understand why the other features  are
secondary.
      Hari  dasa: A neophyte devotee does not understand  the  true
nature of pure devotional service.  Hearing and chanting the Lord's
glories,  as well as other like devotional activities are all  part
and  parcel of pure devotional service.  However, a person who does
not  understand  the true nature of devotional  service,  does  not
think these are the primary activities of devotional service.  Such
a  person considers these activities secondary.  The three modes of
material nature are: 1. goodness, 2. passion and 3. ignorance. When
the  performer takes shelter of these material modes, he  considers
these devotional activities to be secondary.  When the performer is
free  from the influence of the material modes, he considers  these
activities,  which  begin  with hearing  and  chanting  the  Lord's
glories, to be the primary features of devotional service.  When  a
person  is  thus free of the material modes, he is an  intermediate
(madhyama) devotee.
      Nityananda dasa: A neophyte devotee is still contaminated  by
mental speculation, fruitive work, and non-devotional desires.  Why
is he still considered a devotee?
      Hari  dasa: Faith is the root of devotional service.   Anyone
who  has  faith  is qualified to engage in devotional  service.   A
neophyte  devotee stands at the entrance to the house of devotional
service.   Of  that  there  is no doubt.  The  word  "faith"  means
"trust".  because he trusts that the form of the Lord is a reality,
the neophyte devotee is qualified to engage in devotional service.
      Nityananda dasa: When will such a person attain true devotion
to the Lord?
      Hari  dasa: When he becomes free from mental speculation  and
fruitive  work,  when  he  desires  only  to  engage  in  unalloyed
devotional service, when he understands that honouring a  guest  is
different from honouring a devote, and when he desires to serve the
devotees,  that service being very conducive to the  attainment  of
true  devotion, then he becomes an intermediate (madhyama) devotee,
a pure devotee.
      Nityananda dasa: Pure devotional service is manifested at the
same  time one attains knowledge of his relationship with the Lord.
When  does he attain knowledge of that relationship, knowledge that
makes him eligible to engage in pure devotional service?
      Hari  dasa:  When  he is no longer contaminated  by  mayavada
philosophy,  then his awareness of his true relationship  with  the
Lord  and  his engagement in pure devotional service are manifested
simultaneously.
     Nityananda dasa: How many days does that take?
     Hari dasa: A person who in the past performed many pious deeds
will attain it quickly.
      Nityananda  dasa: What is the first result these  past  pious
deeds bring?
     Hari dasa: Association with devotees.
       Nityananda  dasa:  What  result  is  gradually  attained  by
associating with devotees?
     Hari dasa: Srimad Bhagavatam (3.25.25):
      "In  the  association  of pure devotees,  discussion  of  the
pastimes  and activities of the Supreme Personality of  Godhead  is
very  pleasing  and  satisfying to  the  ear  and  the  heart.   By
cultivating  such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced  on  the
path  of  liberation, and thereafter he is free, and his attraction
becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin."*
      Thus,  a  person  who, in the association of devotees,  hears
about Lord Hari, gradually attains faith and other virtues.
       Nityananda  dasa:  How  does  one  attain  association  with
devotees?
     Hari dasa: I have already explained that.  It is by past pious
deeds.  It is said (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.51.53):
      "O  my  Lord!  O  infallible Supreme Person!  When  a  person
wandering  throughout the universe becomes eligible for  liberation
from  material existence, he gets an opportunity to associate  with
devotees.  When he associates with devotees, his attraction for You
is  awakened.   You  are the Supreme Personality  of  Godhead,  the
highest  goal  of  the  supreme  devotees  and  the  Lord  of   the
universe."*
     Nityananda dasa: If, in the association of devotes, a neophyte
devotee  worships the Deity of the Lord, can it be  said  that  the
neophyte  devotee does not by that action also serve  the  devotees
there?
      Hari dasa: By associating with devotees one gradually attains
faith in the Deity form of the Lord.  However, one must worship the
Supreme  Personality of Godhead and also serve  His  devotees.   As
long  as one does not have faith in both the Lord and His devotees,
one  will  not  attain true faith and one will not be qualified  to
engage in pure devotional service.
      Nityananda dasa: Through what stages does a neophyte  devotee
pass as he makes spiritual advancement?
     Hari dasa: First he has faith in the Deity, but he has not yet
lost the desire for material things and non-devotional talk.  Every
day he worships the Deity.  Devotees come to visit the temple where
he  worships  the Deity.  He honours the devotees as he  would  any
visitors.   The neophyte devotee sees the activities of these  more
advanced devotees.  He hears them discussing the scriptures and the
Vaisnava  philosophy.   Thus hearing and  hearing  and  seeing  and
seeing,  he  develops respect for the good character  of  the  more
advanced  devotees.   Then he himself gradually  becomes  purified.
Gradually   his  interest  in  mental  speculation   and   fruitive
activities becomes less and less.  Then his heart becomes  purified
and  the  material desires in it are thrown far away.  Hearing  and
hearing about Lord Hari's nature and activities, he becomes learned
in  the scriptures.  Studying again and again the truths that  Lord
Hari  is  beyond  the touch of the material modes of  nature,  Lord
Hari's  holy  name  is beyond the touch of the  material  modes  of
nature,  and the devotional activities that begin with hearing  and
chanting the glories of Lord Hari are also beyond the touch of  the
material  modes  of  nature, he gradually comes to  understand  the
truth  of his relationship with Lord Hari.  When that understanding
becomes  perfect, he becomes an intermediate (madhyama) devotee  of
the  Lord.   Then he spontaneously associates with and  serves  the
devotees.   Then  he  can  understand that the  devotees  who  have
accepted a spiritual master are different from ordinary guests.
     Nityananda dasa: Many neophyte devotees do not become advanced
in this way.  Why is that?
      Hari  dasa:  When  his  association  with  persons  who  hate
devotional service is strong, he quickly loses the right  to  be  a
neophyte  devotee.   Then  his interest in mental  speculation  and
fruitive  actions  becomes strong.  Sometimes the neophyte  devotee
neither makes advancement nor falls away.
     Nityananda dasa: When does that happen?
      Hari  dasa: When the neophytes association with devotees  and
persons who hate devotional service is of equal strength.  Then  it
is seen that he neither advances, nor does he fall away.
     Nityananda dasa: When does he definitely make advancement?
     Hari dasa: When his association with devotees is great and his
association  with  persons who hate devotional  service  is  small.
Then he makes swift advancement.
     Nityananda dasa: What are the sins and virtues of the neophyte
devotee?
      Hari  dasa: In the beginning a neophyte devotee may  be  much
like  the mental speculators (jnanis) ad fruitive workers (karmis).
However,  as he makes advancement in devotional service,  his  sins
and  defects  are thrown far away.  Then his desire to  please  the
Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes strong.
      Nityananda  dasa: O master, I have understood the description
of  the  neophyte devotees.  Now please describe to me the  primary
qualities of the intermediate (madhyama) devotees.
       Hari   dasa:  The  primary  qualities  of  the  intermediate
(madhyama)  devotees are: 1. Unalloyed devotion to Lord  Krsna,  2.
friendship with persons who identify themselves as devotees,  think
"Krsna  is  my  Lord", and visit holy places, and 3. mercy  to  the
innocent persons who do not understand the truth and 4. neglect  of
persons  who  hate  devotees.   The  primary  activities   of   the
intermediate devotees are these: 1. Lord Krsna and 2.  by  engaging
in  devotional service (abhidheya) to Lord Krsna, the  intermediate
devotee,  3.  attains the highest goal (prayojana),  which  is  the
perfection  of  love for Lord Krsna.  Without committing  offenses,
the  intermediate  devotee  performs various  kinds  of  devotional
services in the association of other devotees, services that  begin
with the chanting of Lord Hari's holy name.
      Nityananda  dasa:  What  are the secondary  qualities  of  an
intermediate devotee?
      Hari dasa: The way an intermediate devotee lives his life  is
his secondary quality. He lives in such a way that he obeys Krsna's
will and he serves Krsna favourably.
     Nityananda dasa: Is he not able to sin or commit offenses?
     Hari dasa: In the beginning he may be a little prone to sin or
offend,  but  gradually he throws these things far  away.   In  the
beginning  these  faults may be present, but in  time  they  become
completely  destroyed.   They become like chick-peas  crushed  into
powder.   Thus  an intermediate devotee's life is characterised  by
appropriate renunciation (yukta-vairagya).
       Nityananda  dasa:  Are  philosophical  speculation  (jnana),
fruitive  action  (karma), and the desire for  things  outside  the
realm of devotional service not present even slightly in his life?
     Hari dasa: In the beginning there may be the dim reflection of
these  things, but at the end they are torn up by their roots.   In
the  beginning they may sometimes be visible, but in the course  of
time they are never seen again.
     Nityananda dasa: Do the intermediate devotees wish to continue
living in the material world?  If so, why?
      Hari dasa: They wish to continue living in the material world
only  so  they  may  attain the perfect stage  of  pure  devotional
service.   They do not wish to live in the material world  for  its
own  sake,  nor do they not wish to attain liberation for  its  own
sake.
      Nityananda  dasa:  Why  do they not  wish  for  death?   What
happiness can they find in this dull and inert material  body?   By
Lord  Krsna's  mercy  will they not at once attain  their  original
spiritual forms when they die?
      Hari  dasa: They want whatever Krsna wants.  If Krsna  wishes
that  something happen, it will happen.  They do not need  to  wish
for anything independently.
      Nityananda  dasa:  Now  I  understand  the  qualities  of  an
intermediate (madhyama) devotee.  What are the secondary  qualities
of an advanced (uttama) devotee?
      Hari  dasa: His only secondary qualities are the  actions  he
performs  with  his body, actions impelled by pure  spiritual  love
(prema)  free  from the material modes (nirguna).  Therefore  these
actions cannot be seen as true secondary qualities.
      Nityananda dasa: O master, a neophyte (kanistha) devotee does
not  renounce  householder  life, and  an  intermediate  (madhyama)
devotee  may  live either as a householder or a  sannyasi.   Is  it
possible  for  an  advanced  (uttama)  devotee  to  remain   as   a
householder?
      Hari dasa: These conditions are present in all the stages  of
devotional  service.   It  is not that simply  by  remaining  as  a
householder  or  by accepting sannyasa one becomes  situated  in  a
particular stage of advancement in devotional service.  An advanced
devotee may remain in householder life.  The residents of Vrajapura
were  all  householders.   Yet  they were  all  certainly  advanced
devotees.   Many  of  Lord  Mahaprabhu's personal  associates  were
householders.    They   were  also  certainly  advanced   devotees.
Ramananda Raya is the first proof of that.
      Nityananda  dasa:  O  master, if an  advanced  devotee  is  a
householder and an intermediate devotee is a sannyasi,  how  should
they act in regard to each other?
      Hari  dasa:  The less-advanced devotee should offer  dandavat
obeisances to the more advanced devotee.  This rule applies only to
intermediate devotees.  An advanced devotee is not very  interested
in  things  like  offering obeisances.  He sees  the  Supreme  Lord
present in the hearts of all living beings.
     Nityananda dasa: Should many Vaisnavas gather together to hold
festivals and honour the Lord's prasadam?
      Hari  dasa:  Devotees often gather together.  At these  times
householders  who are intermediate devotees like to offer  prasadam
to  the  other devotees.  From the spiritual point of view  no  one
should  object to this.  However, it is not good to  make  a  great
pompous  display of serving the Vaisnavas.  That is in the mode  of
passion.  Otherwise one should certainly offer prasadam to  saintly
Vaisnavas.   In that way one honours the Vaisnavas.  If one  wishes
to  serve  the Vaisnavas in this way, one should invite  only  pure
Vaisnavas.
     Nityananda dasa: In my home place of Baragachi it is customary
to honour the descendants of great Vaisnavas.  Householders who are
neophyte devotees invite them to honour prasadam.  Is this proper?
      Hari  dasa:  Are  these descendants of great  Vaisnavas  pure
devotees?
      Nityananda  dasa: I don't see pure devotion in all  of  them.
They say they are Vaisnavas.  Some wear the kaupina of a sannyasi.
      Hari  dasa: How this custom started I cannot say.  It is  not
right.   This happens because a neophyte devotee does not have  the
power to understand who is truly an advanced Vaisnava.
      Nityananda  dasa: Is it right to give special honour  to  the
descendant of a great Vaisnava?
      Hari  dasa: A Vaisnava should be honoured.  If the descendant
of  a  great Vaisnava is himself a pure Vaisnava then certainly  he
should be honoured according to the level of his own advancement in
devotional service.
      Nityananda dasa: And if the descendant of a great Vaisnava is
himself only an ordinary man?
      Hari dasa: Then he should be counted among the ordinary  men.
He  should not be honoured or counted among the Vaisnavas.   Still,
one  should  always remember Sri Mahaprabhu's teaching  (Siksastaka
3):
      "One  who  thinks himself lower than the grass, who  is  more
tolerant  than a tree, and who does not expect personal honour  but
is  always prepared to give all respects to others, can very easily
always chant the holy name of the Lord."*
      This  means  that  one should be humble and give  appropriate
honour  to  all  other people.  To a Vaisnava one should  give  the
honour  proper  for a Vaisnava.  To one who is not a  Vaisnava  one
should  give the honour that one should give to every human  being.
A  person who does not honour others is not qualified to chant  the
holy names of Lord Hari.
     Nityananda dasa: What kind of humility is appropriate?
      Hari  dasa:  One  should not proudly think,  "I  am  a  great
brahmana",  "I am wealthy", "I am a great scholar", "I am  a  great
Vaisnava",  "I am a great sannyasi".  One should not aspire  to  be
honoured  by others.  One should not think, "I should be  honoured,
for  I am exalted in many ways".  Instead, one should think, "I  am
very poor and fallen.  I am lower than a blade of grass."
     Nityananda dasa: From this I can understand that without being
humble and merciful one cannot be a Vaisnava.
     Hari dasa: That is true.
      Nityananda  dasa: Does the goddess of devotion  (Bhakti-devi)
require humbleness and mercy from the devotees?
      Hari  dasa:  Devotional  service is independent.   Devotional
service  is beautiful by itself.  It does not need to be  decorated
by  good qualities.  Those two virtues: humility and mercy, are not
separate  from devotional service.  They are spontaneously included
with devotional service.  A person who has devotion to the Lord  is
naturally  humble.  He naturally thinks, "I am a  servant  of  Lord
Krsna.   I am poverty stricken.  I do not have anything.  Krsna  is
my  only  treasure,  my  everything, the be-all-and-end-all  of  my
life."  When a person is situated in devotional service, his  heart
melts  with love for Krsna.  Because such a person sees  all  other
living beings as servants of Krsna, his heart also melts with  love
for  them.   Thus  he  has mercy on them.  In  this  way  mercy  is
naturally  included  within  devotional  service.   Forgiveness  is
situated between mercy and humility.  In this way one thinks, "I am
poor  and  fallen, how can I be qualified to punish others?"   When
this  thought joins with mercy, forgiveness is born.  In  this  way
forgiveness  is also naturally included within devotional  service.
Krsna  is eternal and real (satya), the individual spirit  soul  is
eternal  and  real, the individual spirit soul's  service  to  Lord
Krsna is also eternal and real, and the individual soul's temporary
sojourn  in  the  material world is also real.   In  this  way  the
relationship  between the individual soul and Krsna, a relationship
that  is  manifested as devotional service, is  eternal  and  real.
Therefore   eternal   spiritual  reality,   humility,   mercy   and
forgiveness  are  four  things  naturally  included  in  devotional
service.
      Nityananda dasa: How should a Vaisnava relate to  persons  of
other religions?
     Hari dasa:  Srimad Bhagavatam (1.2.26) gives this explanation:
      "Those  who  are serious about liberation are certainly  non-
envious  and  they respect all.  Yet they reject the  horrible  and
ghastly  forms  of  the demigods and worship only the  all-blissful
forms of Lord Visnu and His plenary portions."*
     The Vaisnava religion is the only religion.  There is no other
religion  but that.  The other religions that are present  in  this
world  are  either steps in the staircase leading to  the  Vaisnava
religion,  or else perverted reflections of the Vaisnava  religion.
When  other  religions are steps leading to the Vaisnava  religion,
these  religions  should  be appropriately  honoured.   When  their
religions  are perverted reflections of the Vaisnava religion,  one
should  ignore them, and without malice or envy, place his thoughts
on  the truths of devotional service.  In this way one should avoid
attacking  other spiritual paths.  When his auspicious  day  comes,
the  follower of another religion will naturally become a Vaisnava.
Of this there is no doubt.
      Nityananda  dasa:  Then one should not  preach  the  Vaisnava
religion?
      Hari dasa: One should preach in every way possible.  Our Lord
Mahaprabhu  has  given  us  all the duty  to  preach  the  Vaisnava
religion.   He  said  (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila  7.92  and
9.36):
      "My  dear  child, continue dancing, chanting  and  performing
sankirtana in association with devotees.  Furthermore, go  out  and
preach  the  value of chanting Krsna-nama, for by this process  You
will be able to deliver all fallen souls."*
      "Therefore I order every man within this universe  to  accept
this Krsna consciousness movement and distribute it everywhere."*
      However,  keep this in mind: Unworthy persons must  first  be
made  worthy before you give them many instructions about the  holy
name.  In certain situations one should remain silent.  Do not give
elaborate  explanations in situations where your  words  become  an
obstacle to preaching.
      Overwhelmed  with  love by hearing saintly Haridasa  Babaji's
sweet  words, Nityananda dasa began to roll about on the ground  in
ecstasy.   Then all the assembled Vaisnavas chanted the holy  names
of  Lord Hari.  They all offered dandavat obeisances to the saintly
babaji.  Then that day's meeting in the secluded grove came  to  an
end, and everyone returned to his own place.
Chapter Nine
Nitya-dharma O Prakrta-vijnan Evam Sabhyata
Eternal Religion and Modern Science-Civilisation
     Living among the Vaisnavas in Godruma for three or four years,
Lahiri  Mahasaya became pure in heart.  He always chanted the  holy
names  of  Lord  Hari.  He wore simple clothing.   He  had  neither
sandals nor wooden slippers.  His pride of caste was now thrown far
away.   Whenever he saw a Vaisnava, he would at once offer dandavat
obeisances  and insist on taking the dust of that Vaisnava's  feet.
He would search for pure Vaisnavas and accept the remnants of their
meals.    Sometimes  his  sons  would  visit.   Understanding   his
situation,  they would not propose that he return  home.   Everyone
could  see  that Lahiri Mahasaya was a Vaisnava babaji.   Following
the  conclusion  accepted  by  the Vaisnavas  of  Sri  Godruma,  he
understood that renunciation was needed within the heart,  and  the
external  trappings of renunciation were not important.   Following
the  example of Srila Sanatana Gosvami, he would take one piece  of
cloth  and  divide it into four.  Those would be his garments.   He
still  wore  a sacred thread around his neck.  Sometimes  his  sons
would  try to give him money.  Saying, "I do not accept money  from
materialists", he would not take it.  Once Candrasekhara  tried  to
give  him  a  hundred  coins  to have  a  great  festival  for  the
Vaisnavas.   Remembering  the example of Raghunatha  dasa  Gosvami,
Lahiri Mahasaya refused the money.
      One day the paramahamsa babaji said, "O Lahiri Mahasaya,  you
never  act  in any way improper for a Vaisnava.  Though  I  am  the
sannyasi, you teach me what true renunciation is.  If you accept  a
Vaisnava name from me, then everything will be complete."
      Lahiri  Mahasaya replied, "You are my parama-guru.   Whatever
you wish, that will be done."
     The saintly babaji said, "You come from Santipura, therefore I
will call you Advaita dasa."
      Offering  dandavat obeisances, Lahiri Mahasaya  accepted  the
merciful  gift  of  his new name.  From that day forward,  everyone
called  him  Advaita  dasa,  and the  cottage  where  he  performed
devotional service they called Advaita-kutira.
       Advaita   dasa  had  a  childhood  friend  named   Digambara
Cattopadhyaya.   Holding  various  high  posts  in  the  Mohammedan
government, he had become wealthy.  Attaining old age,  he  retired
from  his government post, returned to his home town of Kalna,  and
tried  to find Kalidasa Lahiri.  He heard that Kalidasa Lahiri  had
gone to Sri Godruma, accepted the name Advaita dasa, and was always
chanting the holy names of Lord Hari.
      Digambara  Cattopadhyaya was a fanatical devotee  of  Goddess
Durga.  His response to hearing a Vaisnava's name was to cover  his
ears with his hands.  Hearing that his old friend had become fallen
in  that  way, he declared, "O Vamana dasa, arrange for a boat.   I
will  go  to  Navadvipa  and  rescue  my  unfortunate  old  friend,
Kalidasa.  Quickly arranging for the boat, Vamana dasa returned and
informed his master.  Digambara Cattopadhyaya was very intelligent.
He  was learned in the Tantras, and he was also learned in the ways
of  the Mohammedans.  Arguing in Persian and Arabic, he could  even
defeat the best Mohammedan scholars.  Arguing about the Tantras, he
made  the  best  brahmana scholars speechless.  His name  was  well
known  in Delhi, Lucknow and other places.  In his leisure time  he
had  written a book titled Tantra-sangraha (An anthology  from  the
Tantras).   He was learned in many subjects and could discourse  on
many scripture passages.
      Proudly grasping his Tantra-sangraha, Digambara stepped  into
the boat.  After a six hour journey the boat landed at Sri Godruma.
Staying  in  the  boat,  he send an intelligent  messenger  to  Sri
Advaita dasa.
      Sri Advaita dasa was sitting in his cottage and chanting  the
holy  names  of  Lord  Hari.   Digambara Cattopadhyaya's  messenger
approached  and bowed down.  Advaita dasa asked him, "Who  are  you
and  why have you come?"  The messenger replied, "I am sent by  Sri
Digambara  Cattopadhyaya.  He asks this question: 'O  Kalidasa,  do
you remember me, or have you forgotten?'
      Sri  Advaita dasa replied, "Digambara?  Where?  My  childhood
friend!  Do I have to power to forget him?  Has he taken shelter of
the  Vaisnava  religion?" The messenger said, "He is sitting  in  a
boat  by  the landing place.  I cannot say whether he has become  a
Vaisnava."   Advaita dasa said, "Why does he stay  at  the  landing
place?   Why  does he not come to my cottage?"  Hearing  this,  the
messenger left.
      After  an hour, Digambara Cattopadhyaya appeared at  Advaita-
kutira with three or four gentlemen.  Digambara always was generous
at heart.  When he saw his old friend, his heart became filled with
joy.   Singing  some  verses he himself had  written,  he  embraced
Advaita dasa.  He sang:
      "O  Mother Kali, who in the three worlds knows all about Your
transcendental  pastimes?  Sometimes You are  a  man,  sometimes  a
woman,  and  sometimes a ferocious warrior. You become  Brahma  and
create the world.  You become Siva and destroy it.  You become all-
pervading  Visnu and protect everyone.  You become Krsna  and  play
the  flute in Vrndavana forest.  You become Gaura and make  all  of
Navadvipa wild with the chanting of the holy names."
     Advaita dasa said, "My brother, come in.  Come in."  Digambara
sat on a leaf-seat.  Tears of love glistened in his eyes.  He said,
"Dear brother Kalidasa, where shall I go?  Now you are sannyasi and
you  have given up duties and demigods.  How hopeful I was  when  I
first  came from Punjab.  Our boyhood friends: Pesa, Pagla, Khenda,
Girisa,  Ise  Pagla, Dhana Mayara, Kele Chutor, Kanti  Bhattacarji,
all have died.  Only you and I remain.  I thought some days I would
cross  the  Ganges and visit you at Santipura and  other  days  you
would  cross  the Ganges and visit me at Ambika.  In the  few  days
that  remain  for us, we would sing together and study the  Tantras
together.   Alas, bad luck has struck my head.  You have  become  a
bullheaded  fool,  useless in this world and  the  next.   Look  at
yourself.  Tell me: How has this happened to You?"
      Advaita dasa could see that this person was very bad company.
He  began  to think how he could escape the hands of his  childhood
friend.   He said, "Brother Digambara, do you remember how one  day
when  we  were  playing dandaguli we gradually  came  to  that  old
tamarind tree?
      Digambara:  Yes, yes.  I remember.  That was  near  Gauridasa
Pandita's house.  The tamarind tree where Gaura-Nitai used to sit.
      Advaita:  As  we  were playing you said,  "Don't  touch  that
tamarind tree!  Aunt Saci's son used to sit here.  If we touch this
tree we will become sannyasis."
      Digambara:  I  remember.  I could  see  that  you  liked  the
Vaisnavas.  I said, "You will fall into Gauranga's trap."
      Advaita:  Brother, for a long time I was like  that.   I  was
always just about to fall into that trap.  Now I have fallen in.
     Digambara: Catch hold of my hand and come out.  It is not good
to stay in a trap.
     Advaita: Brother, I am very happy in this trap.  I pray that I
shall stay here forever.  Just once you should touch this trap  and
see what it is like.
      Digambara:  I  have seen.  In the beginning it is  happiness.
But in the end it is a hoax.
      Advaita: Do you think the trap where you live will bring  you
happiness at the end?  My mind says it will not.
      Digambara: Let us see.  We are servants of Goddess Mahavidya.
In  this life we have happiness, and in the next life we also  have
happiness.  You think that you are happy, but I don't  see that you
are  happy.   In  the end there will be no end to your  sufferings.
Why  does someone become a Vaisnava?  I cannot say.  Look, we enjoy
eating fish and meat and other things.  We are happy.  We are  more
civilised  than  you.  We enjoy all the good things modern  science
provides.   You have renounced all these good things.  And  in  the
end for you there will be no escape.
     Advaita: Why, brother, will there be no escape for me?
      Digambara:  If  Mother Nistarini becomes  averse,  then  even
Brahma,  Visnu  and Siva cannot escape.  Mother  Nistarini  is  the
primordial power.  She gives birth to Brahma, Visnu and  Siva.   By
her  power  she  protects them.  When the great mother  wills,  the
great pot of the material universe will again enter her womb.  Have
you worshipped the mother, so she will have mercy on you?
      Advaita: Is Mother Nistarini conscious, or is she unconscious
matter?
      Digambara: She is consciousness personified.  All her desires
are at once fulfilled.  It is by her wish that spirit was created.
     Advaita: What is spirit, and what is matter.
      Digambara:  Vaisnavas only worship.   They  know  nothing  of
philosophy.  Spirit and matter are like the two halves of a  chick-
pea.   Unhusk  it,  and  there  are two  halves.   Leave  the  husk
untouched,  and  there  is one chick-pea.  When  consciousness  and
unconsciousness join and become one, that is called Brahman.
     Advaita: Is your mother female or male?
     Digambara: Sometimes she is male and sometimes female.
     Advaita: Spirit and matter are like the two halves of a chick-
pea.  Which is the mother and which is the father?
     Digambara: You are eager to know the truth?  We know the truth
very  well.   The  truth  is that matter is mother  and  spirit  is
father.
     Advaita: Who are you?
      Digambara:  When  I am bound by ropes of  illusion  I  am  an
individual soul.  When those ropes are untied, I am Lord Sadasiva.
     Advaita: You are spirit?  You are not matter"
     Digambara: I am spirit.  Mother is matter.  When I am bound by
illusion  she is my mother.  When I am free of illusion she  is  my
wife.
      Advaita: Now the truth is out!  Now doubt is gone.  Where did
you get these truths?
       Digambara:  Brother,  you  are  always  saying,   "Vaisnava!
Vaisnava!"   I  am  not  like that.  I have  associated  with  many
sannyasis,  brahmacaris, and tantrik saints.  I  have  studied  the
Tantras day and night.  That is how I have attained this knowledge.
If you like, I can teach it to you.
     Advaita: (thinking to himself) How horrible!  How unfortunate!
(aloud)  Very  good.   Please explain one thing  to  me.   What  is
civilisation, and what is modern science?
      Digambara: 1. To speak in such a way that pleases respectable
people,  2. to wear clothing that pleases them, and 3. to eat  food
they  like,  to  do  things like them, and not to  do  anything  to
displease them.  You do not do any of these three!
     Advaita: How is that?
      Digambara:  You do not associate with others.  You  are  very
unsocial.   The Vaisnavas have never learned the art of  flattering
others  with  sweet words.  When they see someone they always  tell
him  to  chant  the name of Hari.  Can't they say  something  else?
When  people  see your clothing they refrain from inviting  you  to
visit them.  You wear a stupid tuft of hair on the top of your head
an a basketful of beads around your neck, and your own garment is a
loin-cloth!   You  only  eat vegetables and  roots!   You  are  not
civilised, even slightly.
      Advaita: (thinking to himself) If I quarrel with him, he will
go  away.   That would be good for me.  (aloud) Does this  kind  of
civilisation make one's next life auspicious?
      Digambara:  It  does not make the next life  auspicious.   If
there  is no civilisation how will society become uplifted?   First
society must be uplifted.  when it is uplifted, then people may try
to improve the next life.
      Advaita:  Brother, if you do not become angry,  I  could  say
something.
     Digambara: You are my boyhood friend.  I would give up my life
for  your  sake.   Why  would I not peacefully  tolerate  a  single
statement  of yours?  We are civilised men.  Even if we are  angry,
sweet  words  will stay on our mouths.  The more we hide  our  true
feelings, the more civilised we become.
      Advaita:  Human  life  is for only a  few  days.   Still,  it
contains  many  troubles.   In  this very  short  life  one  should
sincerely worship Lord Hari.  The 'civilisation' you talk about  is
only  a  way  to  cheat  the  soul.   Therefore  I  say  that  this
'civilisation' is only another word for 'cheating'.  When men  walk
on  the  path  of  truth, they are simple and honest.   When  men's
actions are a collection of lies, their hearts are full of cunning,
their deeds are sins, and their words are empty flattery.  That  is
your  'civilisation'.  True civilisation is not like that.  In true
civilisation  men are honest and sincere.  Nowadays  people  merely
hide  the  wickedness in their hearts, and that  hiding  they  call
'civilisation'.  The true meaning of 'civilisation' is 'honesty and
goodness'.   What  you  call 'civilisation' is  only  cheating  and
wickedness.  Civilisation that is sinless is found only  among  the
Vaisnavas.   So-called 'civilisation' that is filled with  sins  is
liked  only by they who are not Vaisnavas.  The 'civilisation'  you
describe  has  nothing to do with the soul's  eternal  nature.   If
wearing fashionable clothes that please others is the true mark  of
civilisation, then prostitutes are the most civilised.  The purpose
of clothing is only to cover the body.  Clothing should be neat and
clean,  and free from unclean odours and other faults.  Food should
be  pure  and  nutritious.  There is nothing wrong with  food  like
that.   You  think only that food should be palatable.   You  don't
consider  whether it is pure or not.  Liquor and meat are naturally
impure and unholy.  A 'civilisation' that lives by enjoying them is
only a collection of sins.  What you call 'modern civilisation'  is
the civilisation of Kali-yuga.
      Digambara: Have you forgotten the very civilised  society  of
the   Muslim  emperors?   You  should  see  how  the  people  dress
fashionably and speak politely in the Muslim emperor's court!
      Advaita: That is only material politeness.  What does  a  man
lose if he is unaware of this exaggerated politeness?  Brother, you
spent  too  many  days working for the Muslims.  That  is  why  you
defend  the  Muslim ways.  True civilisation is when men  are  free
from  sins.  "Civilisation" that encourages sin is the civilisation
of Kali-yuga.  That kind of civilisation is only a pathetic joke.
      Digambara:  Look,  the modern idea is 'humanism'.   They  who
don't   accept   modern  civilisation  aren't   considered   human.
Fashionable  clothing that makes women attractive and  masks  their
imperfections are very popular nowadays.
     Advaita: You consider whether this is good or bad.  I see that
the  people  who advance this modern civilisation are  only  clever
opportunists.   Partly  because they are superstitious  and  partly
because  they  like to conceal their own flaws, these  people  like
this dishonest 'civilisation'.  Will a wise man be happy in such  a
civilisation?   This civilisation of rogues can  be  kept  together
only by meaningless words and by brute force.
     Digambara: Some say that the people of the world are gradually
becoming  more educated.  As they become more educated,  they  will
become more civilised, and as the people become more civilised, the
earth will gradually become Svargaloka.
      Advaita:  Those philosophers are smoking ganja.   Anyone  who
believes  those  stories is rich in blind faith.   They  who  don't
believe those stories are fortunate.  There two kinds of knowledge:
1.  spiritual, and 2. material.  I don't think spiritual  knowledge
is  increasing.  In many places spiritual knowledge collapsing.   I
think  it  is material knowledge that is increasing.  Does material
knowledge  touch  the  soul  eternally?   When  material  knowledge
increases, then the heart becomes attracted to material things  and
has  contempt  for  the  spiritual truth.  I  agree  that  material
knowledge  is increasing, but from that knowledge comes a dishonest
civilisation.  That 'civilisation' brings great misfortune  to  the
soul.
     Digambara: Why misfortune?
     Advaita: As I said before, human life is very short.  The soul
is  like a traveller briefly staying at an inn.  He should use this
short  time to attain spiritual perfection.  If the travellers  are
concerned only with how to be most comfortable at the inn, the time
they  should  be spending on planning their journey  is  lost.   As
material  knowledge increases, the time spent on  spiritual  things
will  decrease.  I think that material knowledge should be accepted
only as far as is needed in ordinary affairs.  There is no need for
more  material knowledge or its lady friend, material civilisation.
For how many days will the benefits of this world last?
      Digambara:  I  have  fallen into the  company  of  a  fanatic
sannyasi.  Is society not important?
      Advaita: Different kinds of society bring different  results.
If  one associates with Vaisnavas, then there is a good result.  If
one associates with materialists, then the results are not good for
the soul.  Let us stop talking of this.  What is material science?
      Digambara:  Many kinds of material sciences are described  in
the Tantras.  Whatever knowledge, skill, and beauty are present  in
the material world are all described in material science.  Military
science,  medicine,  music,  and  astronomy  are  all  examples  of
material sciences.  The material nature is the first power (again I
describe  the  spiritual truth!).  She gave birth to  the  material
world.  From her it is manifested.  By her power it is filled  with
wonderful  variety.  One by one, all forms come from her.   One  by
one,  all  kinds  of  knowledge  come  from  her.   When  a  person
understands  this,  Mother Nistarini frees  him  from  sin  and  he
becomes  liberated.   The  Vaisnavas  will  not  seek  out   Mother
Nistarini.  However,  we attain liberation by  understanding  these
truths.   Look,  by the careful study of material knowledge  Plato,
Aristotle,  Socrates, the famous Hakim, and many other great  souls
in the yavana countries have written many, many books.
      Advaita:  You  said that the Vaisnavas are not interested  in
science.  That is not true.  Why not?  The Vaisnavas are interested
in the science of pure knowledge, which is described in these words
of Srimad Bhagavatam's four nutshell verses (2.9.30):
      "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Knowledge about  Me
as  described in the scriptures is very confidential, and it has to
be  realised in conjunction with devotional service.  The necessary
paraphernalia for that process is being explained by Me.   You  may
take it up carefully."*
       Pleased   by   Brahma's  devotional  service,  the   Supreme
Personality  of Godhead gave him this instruction even  before  the
material  world was created.  In this way the Lord taught  him  the
pure  Vaisnava religion.  The Lord said, "O Brahma, knowledge about
Me  as described in the scriptures is very confidential, and it has
to  be  realised  in  conjunction  with  devotional  service.   The
necessary paraphernalia for that process is being explained by  Me.
You  may take it up carefully."*  O Digambara, there are two  kinds
of  knowledge:  1. spiritual knowledge, and 2. material  knowledge.
Because  it  is  attained  through the  material  senses,  material
knowledge  is  very  impure.  Neither is it  needed  for  spiritual
advancement.  It is needed only for the conditioned soul's life  in
the  material  world.  Spiritual knowledge is called 'suddha-jnana'
(pure  knowledge).  that eternal knowledge is the  foundation-stone
of   the   Vaisnavas'  temple  of  devotional  service.   Spiritual
knowledge  and  material knowledge are very  different.   They  are
opposites.  You call material knowledge 'science', but  it  is  not
science  at  all.  You call medical knowledge and  other  kinds  of
material knowledge 'science', but it is spiritual knowledge,  which
is  different  from  material  knowledge,  that  should  be  called
'science'.    'Knowledge'  and  'science'  are  synonyms.    Direct
perception of the spiritual truth is called 'knowledge'.   When  it
eclipses  material  knowledge, pure spiritual knowledge  is  called
'science'.   Thus  these two are actually the  same  thing,  called
either  'knowledge'  or 'science' in different circumstances.   You
call  material knowledge 'science'.  The Vaisnavas call the  proper
use  of  material knowledge 'science'.  Military, skill,  medicine,
astronomy,  chemistry,  and all other kinds of  material  knowledge
have  no  eternal  relation to the soul.  Therefore  they  have  no
bearing at all on the soul's eternal activities and eternal duties.
The  Vaisnavas do not criticise the materialists who perform  Vedic
rituals (karma-kanda) for material elevation.  Why not?  Indirectly
their   attempts   for  material  elevation  help   the   spiritual
advancement  of  the  Vaisnavas.  You may call  material  knowledge
'material  science'.  What is wrong with that?  It  is  foolish  to
squabble over names.
      Digambara:  Well,  if  there were  no  progress  in  material
knowledge,  it would not be so easy for you to pass  your  life  in
devotional service.  Therefore you also should strive for  material
progress.
      Advaita:  Different people, with different  desires,  try  in
different  ways, and the Supreme Controller gives each  person  the
fruits of his actions.
     Digambara: Why do people have different desires?
      Advaita:  Desires  are  created by  past  karma.   One  whose
material desires are strong becomes learned in material things  and
expert in material work.  What is produced in this way may help the
Vaisnavas  in their service to Lord Krsna.  However, the  Vaisnavas
themselves need not become expert in these different skills.  Look,
a  carpenter may make a cart, and householder Vaisnava may use that
cart  to  carry the Deity of the Lord.  Bees may gather honey,  and
the  devotees of the Lord may take the honey and employ it  in  the
Lord's  service.   Not  everyone in this  world  is  interested  in
spiritual  advancement.   From  their different  desires  different
kinds  of  work are manifested.  Men are of different  kinds,  some
exalted and others lowly.  They whose desires are lowly may work in
different ways, and they whose desires are lofty may use the result
of  that work for good purposes.  Pushed by these differences,  the
circle  of  the world turns.  Materialistic men work  in  different
ways,  and  what  they produce may be helpful to the spiritualists,
the  Vaisnavas.  The materialists do not understand  how  they  are
helping  the  Vaisnavas.  Still, bewildered by  Lord  Visnu's  maya
potency,  they act in that way.  Thus the entire world  unknowingly
serves the Vaisnavas.
      Digambara:  What is the illusory potency of  Lord  Visnu  you
mentioned?
      Advaita: In the Candi-mahatmya of the Markandeya Purana it is
said:
     "The entire world is bewildered by Lord Hari's maya potency."
     These words describe Lord Visnu's maya potency.
     Digambara: Then who is the goddess I know as Mother Nistarini?
     Advaita: She is Lord Visnu's maya potency.
      Digambara: (opening his book about the Tantras) Look! Here it
says,  "My  Mother  is  the form of spiritual  consciousness.   Her
desires  are  at once fulfilled.  She is beyond the  touch  of  the
three  modes, but still She manifests the three modes".  Your  maya
potency  of Lord Visnu is not beyond the three modes.  How can  you
say  that your maya potency of Lord Visnu is the same as my Mother?
When  I  see how you Vaisnavas are such closed-minded fanatics,  it
does not make me happy at all.
      Advaita: Brother Digambara, please don't be angry.  After  so
many days you have seen me again.  I want to make you happy.  If  I
say  'the  maya  potency of Lord Visnu', how have I  become  small-
minded?   Lord  Visnu  is  the all-knowing Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead.  All that exists is His potency.  The word 'potency'  does
not mean a substance.  Rather it means the quality that a substance
possesses.  Therefore the statement that a potency is the  root  of
all  existence goes counter to the truth.  A potency  cannot  exist
apart  from its substance.  An original substance with a  spiritual
form must first be accepted.  After all, the commentary on Vedanta-
sutra declares:
      "The  potency  and  the  possessor of  the  potency  are  not
different."
      The  meaning, then, is that the potency does not exist  apart
from  its  substance.   The  only true  substance  is  the  Supreme
Personality of Godhead, the master of potencies.  The nature of the
potency  is  either  to  be  a quality  of  the  Supreme  Lord,  or
submissive to His will.  When it is said that the potency has  pure
consciousness, that means that because the potency and  the  master
of  potencies  are  not different, therefore, like  the  master  of
potencies,  the potency also has a form of spiritual consciousness,
has desires that are at once fulfilled, and is beyond the touch  of
the  three  modes.  It is not a mistake to say these things.   Will
and  consciousness  are  qualities of the  Supreme  Personality  of
Godhead.  By itself, the potency does not possess will, but  rather
it  carries  out  the will of the Supreme.  For example,  you  have
power,  and  by  Your will, your potencies act.  If you  say,  'the
power  acted', then that means that the possessor of the power  was
actually behind the action.  To say that 'the power acted' is  only
to  use  a figure of speech.  In truth, the Supreme Personality  of
Godhead has only one potency.  When she performs spiritual actions,
she  is  called  spiritual potency, and when she performs  material
actions,  she is called the material potency, or maya.   The  Vedas
(Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) explain:
      "The  potency of the Supreme is manifested in many  different
ways."
      The  potency  that manifests the three modes is the  material
potency.   She creates and destroys the material universes.   Those
are  her duties.  In the Puranas and Tantras this potency is called
by   many   names,  such  as  Visnu-maya,  Maha-maya,   and   Maya.
Allegorically she is also called 'the mother of Brahma,  Visnu  and
Siva",  'the killer of Sumbha and Nisumbha', and other  like  names
that  describe  her different activities.  As long  as  he  remains
deeply  enmeshed in material consciousness, the soul is  under  her
power.   When  he attains pure spiritual knowledge,  the  soul  can
understand the nature of his original spiritual form.  Then  he  is
freed  from the ropes of Maya.  Then he is under the power  of  the
spiritual potency.  Then he becomes happy.
      Digambara: Are you under the power of one of these potencies,
or are you not?
      Advaita:  Yes.  We are also a potency.  We are  'jiva-sakti',
individual  souls. when we become free from the ropes of  the  maya
potency, we are in the power of the spiritual potency.
      Digambara:  Then  you are also a sakta, a worshipper  of  the
potency.
     Advaita: Yes.  The Vaisnavas are naturally saktas.  We are the
servants  of Sri Radhika, who is the spiritual potency.  Under  Her
patronage we worship and serve Lord Krsna.  Who is more of a  sakta
than  we?   I don't see any difference between the saktas  and  the
Vaisnavas.  They who do not take shelter of the spiritual  potency,
but  only  take  shelter  of the material potency,  but  only  take
shelter  of the material potency Maya may be saktas, but  they  are
not  Vaisnavas.   They are materialists.  In the Narada-pancaratra,
Goddess Durga explains:
      "O Krsna, I am Radha, who stays on Your chest during the rasa
dance in Vrndavana forest."
      Thus from Durga-devi's words we can understand that the  Lord
does  not  have  two  potencies.  there is only  one  potency,  who
manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material
potency  Visnu-maya.  When the potency is free  from  the  material
modes,  she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within
the  sphere  of  the  material modes, she is  called  the  material
potency.
      Digambara:  You said that your yourself are  a  potency,  the
'jiva-sakti'.  What potency is that?
      Advaita: In Bhagavad-gita (7.4-5), the Supreme Personality of
Godhead explains:
     "Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false
ego  -  altogether  these  eight  comprise  My  separated  material
energies.*
     "Besides this inferior energy, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is
a  superior energy of Mine, which are all living entities  who  are
struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe."*
      Digambara, do you know the glory of Bhagavad-gita?  It is the
best  of  all scriptures.  It solves all the problems of life.   It
explains that the individual souls are superior to dull matter, and
that they are one of the potencies of the Lord.  The wise call  the
individual souls "tatastha-sakti" (marginal potency).  The marginal
potency is superior to dull matter and inferior to the Lord's  cit-
sakti  (internal potency).  Therefore the individual  spirit  souls
are one of the potencies of the Lord.
     Digambara: Kalidasa, have you seen this Bhagavad-gita?
     Advaita: Yes.  I have read that book.
     Digambara: What does it teach?
      Advaita: Brother Digambara, men praise molasses only as  long
as they have not tasted sugar-candy.
      Digambara: My brother, you are a fanatic.  Devi-bhagavata and
Devi-gita are honoured by everyone.  You Vaisnavas alone  have  not
heard of them.
     Advaita: My brother, have you read Devi-gita?
     Digambara: No. Why should I lie?  I tried to make a manuscript
copy of them, but I was not able.
      Advaita: How can I say that a particular book, which  I  have
not read, is good or bad?  Am I the fanatic, or are you?
      Digambara: My brother, I am always afraid of you.   You  were
always  very talkative.  As a Vaisnava you are even more talkative.
Whatever I say, you refute.
      Advaita:  I am a fool.  But I can see that there is  no  pure
religion  but the Vaisnava religion.  For a long time  you  held  a
grudge  against the Vaisnavas.  That is why you could not see  that
path that leads to your own auspiciousness.
      Digambara:  (a little angry) Is it! I do so much worship  and
devotion, and you say I cannot see the path to my own good!  Have I
been  walking the wrong path all along?  Look! Here is the  Tantra-
sangraha!   How I laboured on it!  Now that you are a Vaisnava  you
like to blaspheme modern science and modern civilisation!  What can
I  do  to  convince you?  Go to civilised people see  whether  they
praise you or me!
      Advaita:  (thinks to himself) How good it will be  when  this
very  bad  company runs away! (aloud) Very well! Brother, when  you
die  you  will  see  how  much benefit modern  science  and  modern
civilisation have given you!
     Digambara: Kalidasa, you are being foolish.  Is there anything
after  death?   As  long as you stay in this world  try  to  become
famous  among  civilised men, and try to enjoy  the  five  material
pleasures.  Enjoy.  At the time of death Mother Nistarini will take
you to a good place.  She will protect you.  Death will come at its
own  time.  Why should you suffer before then?  When you  die,  and
the  ingredients of your body mingle with the other ingredients  of
the  world, where will you be?  This world is an illusion.   It  is
Maya,  Yogamaya  and Maha-maya.  It is she who gives  you  pleasure
here,  and  it  is  she who will give you liberation  after  death.
Nothing  exists but the potency.  From the potency you  have  come.
Into  the  potency you will enter at the end.  Serve  the  potency!
Just  see  the power in the knowledge she gives!  Try  to  increase
your  own  spiritual power!  At the end you will see that there  is
nothing  but  the spiritual potency!  What ganja did you  smoke  to
dream  up  the  fantastic  story that an all-knowing  personal  God
exists?   By believing that story you attained only suffering.   In
the  next life what benefit will you earn that I will not also get?
I  do  not  know.  What is the use of believing in a personal  God?
Serve  the potency!  You will merge into the potency.  In  her  you
will rest forever.
      Advaita:  My  brother, you are very attached to the  material
potency.  If an all-knowing personal God exists, what will be  your
fate  after death?  What is happiness?  Happiness is peace of mind.
Renouncing  material  pleasures, I have found peace  and  happiness
inside  my  heart.  If something good exists after  death,  I  will
attain  it.   You are not peaceful and happy.  The more you  enjoy,
the  more  your thirst for evermore pleasure increases.   You  have
never  known  real  happiness.   Again  and  again  you  call   out
'Pleasure! Pleasure!"  One day you will become plunged in an  ocean
of sufferings.
      Digambara:  Whatever will be, will be.  Why do you  shun  the
company of good people?
      Advaita: I do not shun the company of good people.  I already
have their company.  I only shun the wicked.
     Digambara: Who are these wicked?
      Advaita: Please don't become angry when you hear.  I say this
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.30.33):
      "Dear Lord, as long as we have to remain within this material
world due to our material contamination and wander from one type of
body to another and from one planet to another, we pray that we may
associate  with those who are engaged in discussing Your  pastimes.
We  pray for this benediction life after life, in different  bodily
forms and on different planets."*
     Again, in the Seventh Canto it is said:
      "One  should  never  associate  with  materialists  and  non-
devotees.   By their association all is lost.  By their association
one falls into the lower worlds."
     In the Katyayana-samhita it is said:
     "Even if one is forced to live within a cage of iron or in the
midst of a blazing fire, he should accept this position rather than
live  with  non devotees, who are through and through  against  the
supremacy of the Lord."*
     In the Third Canto it is said (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.33-34):
      "(By  associating with unrighteous people, a person)  becomes
devoid  of  truthfulness,  cleanliness, mercy,  gravity,  spiritual
intelligence, shyness, austerity, fame, forgiveness, control of the
mind, control of the senses, fortune and all such opportunities.*
      "One should not associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of
knowledge  and self-realisation and who is no more than  a  dancing
dog in the hands of a woman."*
     In the Garuda Purana it is said:
      "Even  though one may have gone to the other side of all  the
Vedas,  and  even  though one is well versed in  all  the  revealed
scriptures, if one is not a devotee of the Supreme Lord, he must be
considered the lowest of mankind."*
     In Srimad Bhagavatam (6.1.18) it is said:
      "My  dear king, as a pot containing liquor cannot be purified
even if washed in the waters of many rivers, non devotees cannot be
purified  by processes of atonement even if they perform them  very
well."*
     In the Skanda Purana it is said:
      "A person who attacks, criticises, or hates the Vaisnavas, or
who  becomes angry with them, does not respectfully greet them,  or
is not pleased to see them, finds himself in the six hells.
     Digambara, association with wicked people will never bring one
any good.  What will one gain by associating with them?
      Digambara: What a fine fellow I have come to talk  with!   He
thinks  we  are  all  wicked  people!   You  stay  with  your  pure
Vaisnavas!  I am going home.
      Advaita: (thinking to himself) It is almost done.  Now I  had
best  speak very sweetly to him.  (aloud) Ah, now you must go home.
You  are my boyhood friend.  I do not wish to see you go.   If  you
are kind, then please stay.  Stay for some time, take prasadam, and
then go.
      Digambara:  Kalidasa, you know very  well  that  I  eat  only
havisya, and I already had some havisya before I came here.   I  am
glad  to  see you.  I will come again if I find the time.  I  can't
stay  the  night because I must follow the spiritual  practices  my
guru gave me.  for today, brother, I must go.
     Advaita: Let us go then.  I will walk with you to the boat.
      Digambara:  No. No. You do your own business.   I  have  some
friends with me.
      After  speaking  these words, Digambara  burst  into  a  song
glorifying Goddess Durga, and left.  Advaita dasa returned  to  his
cottage  and, without encountering any more interruptions,  chanted
the holy names of Lord Hari.

Chapter Ten
Nitya-dharma O Itihasa
Eternal Religion and History
      A  doubt  arose  in the mind of Sri Harihara  Bhattacarya,  a
teacher  who lived in Agradvipa.  He discussed it with some people,
but  his  doubt would not go away.  It troubled his mind  more  and
more.   One day, when he was in the village of Arkatila,  he  asked
Sri  Caturbhuja Nyayaratna, "O saintly Bhattacarya, please tell me:
How  old  is  the Vaisnava religion?"  Harihara Bhattacarya  is  an
initiated  Vaisnava  and  he  worships  Lord  Krsna  in  his  home.
Nyayaratna  Mahasaya has pursued twenty years of  laborious  study.
He  was  not  interested in any religion.  He did not like  talking
about  religion.  Only when Goddess Durga was worshipped  would  he
show  a  slight religious sentiment.  Harihara's question made  him
think, "this Harihara must be a supporter of Vaisnavism.  He  could
get  me  in  some  trouble.   It is best  to  keep  trouble  away."
Thinking  in  this  way, Nyayaratna Mahasaya said,  "What  kind  of
question  is this today?  You have read many books.  You even  read
the  Muktipada.   Look, in the whole of nyaya-sastra  there  is  no
mention  of the Vaisnava religion.  Why do you annoy me  with  this
question?
     Harihara said, "O Bhattacarya Mahasaya, I come from a Vaisnava
family  and  I  am an initiated Vaisnava.  I never had  any  doubts
about   the   Vaisnava  religion.   You  know   Tarka-cudamani   of
Vikramapura.  Wishing to uproot the Vaisnava religion, he  preaches
against it in many places in this country and others also.  In this
way  he has earned a lot of money.  In a gathering of mostly Durga-
worshippers he said the Vaisnava religion is modern in its  origins
and  has  no  substance or reality.  He said only low-class  people
call  themselves Vaisnavas and upper class people have  no  respect
for  the Vaisnava religion.  When I heard this pandita's conclusion
at  first I was pained at heart, but then, as I thought it over,  I
could  see  that before Prabhu Caitanyadeva there was no Vaisnavism
in  Bengal.   At  that  time almost everyone performed  worship  by
chanting  Durga-mantras.   Some few of us  worshipped  by  chanting
Vaisnava mantras, but all of those Vaisnavas wanted in the  end  to
attain  impersonal  liberation  and  become  Brahman.   All   those
Vaisnavas  were  pancopasakas.  However, after Prabhu  Caitanyadeva
Vaisnavism assumed a new form.  Now Vaisnavas cannot bear  to  hear
the  words  'mukti' and 'brahman'.  What is their understanding  of
devotional  service?  I do not have the power to say.  There  is  a
saying  "The followers of a one-eyed guru will be led  astray".   I
see  these Vaisnavas are like that.  My question is: "Did this kind
of  Vaisnavism exist before, or was it only invented after the time
of Caitanyadeva?"
      Nyayaratna  Mahasaya could see that Harihara's mentality  was
unusual.   In  other words, Harihara was not an orthodox  Vaisnava.
When  this  thought  entered  his mind,  his  face  blossomed  with
happiness.   He said, "Harihara, you are a good scholar  of  nyaya-
sastra.  I agree with your idea.  Nowadays a new kind of Vaisnavism
has come.  I am afraid to say anything against it.  It is the Kali-
yuga!   We  should be a little careful.  Many rich and  respectable
gentlemen have accepted Caitanya's philosophy.  They have no  faith
in  us.  They think we are the enemies.  I think that in a few days
our  business will collapse.  The Telis, Tamlis, and Suvarna-vaniks
all  have taken to talking about the scriptures.  They have brought
great  trouble to us.  Look, for a long time the brahmanas  had  so
arranged  things  that  no other caste could read  the  scriptures.
Even  the  Kayasthas, who were next below the brahmanas, could  not
chant  the  sacred syllable Om.  All followed what  we  said.   But
nowadays  all  these Vaisnavas are discussing the spiritual  truth.
They  have completely defeated us.  Since the time of Nimai Pandita
the  Brahmana  religion has practically disappeared.   O  Harihara,
Tarka-cudamani spoke the truth.  Considering what they have seen or
heard,  others  may say what they like about him.   I  say  he  has
spoken  well.   When I hear the words of these Vaisnava  fools,  my
whole  body  burns  with anger.  They even say that  Sankaracarya's
books  are  false, and his words are all maya.  They say that  Lord
Visnu ordered him to speak a pack of lies.  And then on top of that
they  say  the  Vaisnava religion had no beginning.   The  Vaisnava
religion  is  barely  a  hundred years old!   And  now  it  has  no
beginning.  As the saying goes:
      "The  fools find an innocent man, make him into a  scapegoat,
and attack him again and again."
      Let  them say what they like.  Navadvipa was as good  in  the
past  as  it  is bad in the present.  Nowadays a few Vaisnavas  who
live at Baragachi in Navadvipa see the ideas of the entire world as
foolish.   Some two or three scholars amongst them have turned  the
whole  country  upside-down.  the ideas  that  castes  are  rigidly
fixed,  that  the whole world is an illusion, and that  one  should
worship  Goddess  Durga  have  all been  crushed  by  them.   Look.
Nowadays  there  are not even many sraddha ceremonies.   What  will
happen to the professional brahmanas?
      Then  Harihara  said, "O Bhattacarya Mahasaya,  is  there  no
remedy?   In Mayapura there are still five or six big, big brahmana
scholars.   Then  on the other side of the Ganges  there  are  many
scholars  of  Smrti  and Nyaya.  Why do they not  join  forces  and
attack Gadigacha?
      Nyayaratna  said, "Yes!  If they band together, the  brahmana
scholars can do it!  Of course the brahmana scholars tend to  fight
among  themselves.   They  like  to fight  and  they  pretend  that
fighting among themselves is part of the job of being a scholar.  I
heard that some followers of Krsna-cudamani went to Gadigacha for a
debate  and  came back defeated.  Now they won't even come  out  of
their classrooms.  Some have said that."
      Harihara said, "O Bhattacarya Mahasaya, You are our  teacher.
You  are  the  teacher of many great scholars.   By  studying  your
commentaries on nyaya-sastra, many have learned the art of tricking
others  by  juggling  words.  Please go  and  defeat  the  Vaisnava
scholars  once  and  for all.  The Vaisnava religion  is  a  modern
concoction.   It is not the teaching of the Vedas.  Please  go  and
prove  these  truths.  Then our pancopasana worship, which  is  the
teaching of all the previous authorities, will be saved."
      In  Caturbhuja Nyayaratna's mind there was one fear.  He  was
afraid  that  he  would  meet the same fate as  Krsna-cudamani  and
others  who had already been defeated by the Vaisnavas.   He  said,
"Harihara,  I will go there in disguise.  You go there also.   Pose
as  a  scholar,  and  kindle  the fire  of  debate  in  Gadigacha."
Harihara said, "I must obey your order.  Calling myself 'Mahadeva',
on Monday I will cross the Ganges."
      Monday  came.   Accompanied by Sri Caturbhuja  Nyayaratna  of
Arkatila, the three scholars of Harihara, Kamalakanta, and Sadasiva
crossed  the  Ganges.   After  a little  more  than  ten  hours  of
travelling along the Ganges, they finally arrived at Sri Pradyumna-
kunja.   Again  and again calling out "Haribol! Haribol!",  like  a
small  contingent  of  Durvasa Munis, they  entered  the  grove  of
madhavi  vines.   Advaita dasa came out, greeted  them,  gave  them
sitting-places, and asked, "What order would you like  to  give  to
me?"  Harihara said, "We have come to discuss some things with  the
Vaisnavas."  Advaita dasa replied, "the Vaisnavas of this place  do
not  engage  in debates.  But if you sincerely have some questions,
then  that  is all right.  The other day some scholars came,  asked
some questions, stirred up a great debate, and were left unhappy at
the  end.   I will ask the saintly paramahamsa babaji, and  then  I
will  give you his answer.  After speaking these words, he  entered
the cottage of the paramahamsa babaji.
      After a moment, Advaita dasa returned among them and began to
arrange sitting places for everyone.  Entering the beautiful grove,
the saintly paramahamsa babaji offered dandavat obeisances first to
the  tulasi plant and then to the brahmana guests.  He asked  them,
"O saintly ones, what order would you like to give to me?"
      Then  the  Nyayaratna  said, "I have two  questions  to  ask.
Please  answer them.  Hearing this, the saintly paramahamsa  babaji
called  for  saintly Sri Vaisnava dasa Babaji.  When the  Vaisnavas
were  all  seated  comfortably, Nyayaratna Mahasaya  asked,  "First
consider,  and  then  speak: Is the Vaisnava  religion  ancient  or
modern?"
     Following the saintly paramahamsa babaji's wish, Vaisnava dasa
spoke.   He  said,  "The Vaisnava religion is eternal.   It  always
existed."
      Nyayaratna:  As  I  see it, there are two kinds  of  Vaisnava
religion.  In one kind of Vaisnava religion it is accepted that the
Supreme  is  the formless Brahman.  However,  no one  can  actually
worship something that is formless.  Therefore one may imagine that
the  Supreme has a form, and by worshipping that imagined form, one
gradually  becomes pure in heart.  When one becomes  thus  pure  in
heart,  knowledge of the formless Brahman naturally  arises  within
him.  Thus, by worshipping the imaginary forms of Radha-Krsna, Rama
or  Nrsimha, one eventually attains knowledge of Brahman.  They who
accept this philosophy, worship the Deity of Visnu, and chant Visnu-
mantras,  consider themselves Vaisnavas and count themselves  among
the  pancopasakas.  Another kind of Vaisnava religion affirms  that
Lord  Visnu,  Lord  Rama, or Lord Krsna have real  forms  that  are
eternal.   Then,  by  worshipping these forms  and  chanting  Their
mantras, the devotee attains eternal knowledge of Them,, and  Their
mercy also.  This Sankara is in error and his idea that the Supreme
is  formless  is  a pack of lies.  Of these two kinds  of  Vaisnava
religion, which is eternal?  Which of them always existed?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  The  second one you mentioned  is  the  real
Vaisnava.   It is eternal.  The first one is Vaisnava  religion  in
name  only.  It is the enemy of the true Vaisnava religion.  It  is
not eternal.  It is only a collection of lies.
      Nyayaratna:  I can understand that in your opinion  the  only
true Vaisnava religion is the philosophy of Caitanyadeva.  Thus the
Vaisnava  religion does not mean only the worship  of  Radha-Krsna,
Rama  and  Nrsimha, it means worshipping Radha-Krsna and the  other
Deities according to the principles taught by Caitanya.  Very good.
However,  how  can you say that this kind of Vaisnava  religion  is
eternal?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  The four Vedas teach this kind  of  Vaisnava
religion.   All  the  Smrti-sastras teach  this  kind  of  Vaisnava
religion.   All the Vedic histories (itihasas) sing the glories  of
this kind of Vaisnava religion.
     Nyayaratna dasa: Caitanyadeva was born not even 150 years ago.
From  what  I  can  see He is the first teacher  of  this  kind  of
religion.  If this is so, how can this kind of religion be eternal?
     Vaisnava dasa: As long as any souls ever existed, this kind of
Vaisnava  philosophy  existed also.  The time when  the  individual
souls  first came into existence cannot be calculated according  to
material  time.   Actually,  there  never  was  a  time  when   the
individual  souls  first came into existence.   As  the  individual
souls  are  thus  beginningless, so the Vaisnava religion  is  also
beginningless.  Brahma was the first individual soul to take  birth
in  this universe.  As soon as Brahma was manifested, the words  of
the  Vedas, which are the root of the Vaisnava religion, were  also
manifested.   This  is  recorded in the four  essential  verses  of
Srimad  Bhagavatam  (2.9.33-36).  This is also described  in  these
words of Mundaka Upanisad (1.1.1):
      "Brahma,  who  is  the  first demigod,  the  creator  of  the
universe, and the protector of the worlds, spoke knowledge  of  the
Supreme,  the first of all kinds of knowledge, to his  eldest  son,
Atharva."
     This knowledge of the Supreme is also taught in these words of
the Rg Veda (1.22.20):
     "The lotus feet of Lord Visnu are the supreme objective of all
the demigods.  These lotus feet of the Lord are as enlightening  as
the sun in the sky."*
     In the Svetasvatara Upanisad (5.4.) it is said:
      "The glorious Supreme Personality of Godhead alone rules  all
creatures."
     In the Taittiriya Upanisad (2.1.2) it is said:
       "The  Supreme  Personality  of  Godhead  is  real,  eternal,
limitless,  and all-knowing.  One who understands the Supreme  Lord
residing  in  his  heart  goes to the spiritual  world.   There  He
associates  with  the  all-knowing Supreme  Lord.   There  all  his
desires are fulfilled."
     Nyayaratna: You say that the Rg Veda verse "tad visnoh paraman
padam"  describes  your  kind  of Vaisnava  religion  and  not  the
Vaisnava   religion   that   follows   the   mayavada   theory   of
impersonalism.  How can you claim that?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  The Vaisnava religion  that  is  a  part  of
impersonalism  refuses  to affirm that service  to  Lord  Visnu  is
eternal.    That  religion  claims  that  by  attaining   spiritual
knowledge  a person himself becomes the Supreme.  However,  in  the
Katha Upanisad (1.2.23) it is said:
      "The Supreme Lord is not attained by expert explanations,  by
vast  intelligence, nor even by much hearing.  He is attained  only
by  one who He Himself chooses.  To such a person He manifests  His
own form."*
      Service  to the Lord and surrender to the Lord are  the  only
true  religion.  By following that religion one attains the  Lord's
mercy,  and  only then is one able to see the Lord's eternal  form.
By cultivating impersonal speculation one will not attain that form
of the Lord.  By understanding these clear and unequivocal words of
the  Vedas,  one  can see that the pure Vaisnava religion  has  its
roots  in  the Vedas.  The Vaisnava religion that Sriman Mahaprabhu
taught  is the same religion that is taught in the Vedas.  Of  this
there is no doubt.
      Nyayaratna: Does any Vedic passage affirm this idea that  the
worship  of  Krsna, and not impersonal knowledge,  is  the  highest
attainment?
     Vaisnava dasa: In the Taittiriya Upanisad (2.7.1) it is said:
      "The  Supreme  Personality of Godhead  is  the  reservoir  of
transcendental mellows."*
     In the Chandogya Upanisad (8.13.1) it is said:
      "To  attain Lord Krsna, I surrender to Sri Radha.  To  attain
Sri Radha, I surrender to Lord Krsna."
      I  can  quote  many  Vedic passages proving  that  devotional
service to Lord Krsna is the highest attainment.
     Nyayaratna: Is the name "Krsna" found in the Vedas?
      Vaisnava dasa: Is not the word "syama" a name of Lord  Krsna?
In the Rg Veda (1.22.164) it is said:
     "Then I saw a cowherd boy who will never die."
     This is only one of the many Vedic passages that describe Lord
Krsna, the son of a gopa.
     Nyayaratna: These are all strained and twisted interpretations
of the Vedic passages.
      Vaisnava dasa: If one studies the Vedas thoroughly,  he  will
see that these are the right interpretations.  We should understand
the Vedas according to the explanations given by the ancient sages.
      Nyayaratna:  Now please narrate the history of  the  Vaisnava
religion.
      Vaisnava  dasa:  I  have already said  that  when  the  first
individual  soul  came into existence, the Vaisnava  religion  came
into existence with him.  Therefore the demigod Brahma is the first
Vaisnava.   Lord Siva is also a Vaisnava.  The original  prajapatis
are all Vaisnavas.  Brahma's mind-born son Narada Gosvami is also a
Vaisnava.   Can you not see that the Vaisnava religion was  present
at the moment the material universe was created?  The truth is that
not  everyone  is  beyond  the influence  of  the  material  modes.
Whoever  is  genuinely  free of the material  modes  is  a  genuine
Vaisnava.  The Mahabharata, Ramayana, and Puranas are all histories
of the Vedic civilisation.  You have already seen that the Vaisnava
religion  was  present  at  the moment the  material  universe  was
created.   When  the  scriptures describe the  different  demigods,
human  beings,  and  demons,  there are descriptions  of  Prahlada,
Dhruva,  and  other Vaisnavas from the very beginning.   The  Vedic
histories have only recorded the names of some of the most  famous.
There is no saying how many hundreds of other great Vaisnavas there
were at the time of Prahlada and Dhruva.  Dhruva, Manu's sons,  and
Prahlada  are  all grandsons of Prajapati Kasyapa.  Therefore  they
lived  at the very beginning of the universe.  Of this there is  no
doubt.   In  the  Vedic  histories it is  seen  that  the  Vaisnava
religion  was present at the very beginning of time.  The kings  of
the  Candra-vamsa and Surya-vamsa, as well as the great  munis  and
rsis,  were all sincerely devoted to Lord Visnu.  These things  are
written  in the descriptions of the three yugas:  Satya, Treta  and
Dvapara.   In the Kali-yuga Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhvacarya  and  Sri
Visnu Svami in the south and Sri Nimbarka Svami in the west brought
many  thousands  to  the pure Vaisnava religion.   By  there  mercy
perhaps half the people of Bharata-varsa crossed the ocean of  maya
and found shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord.  In Bengal
you may see Lord Sacinandana, who is the master of our hearts.  How
many fallen souls did He deliver?  When you look at all these great
souls, you do not see the glory of the Vaisnava religion!
      Nyayaratna: Yes.  But what kind of Vaisnavas are Prahlada and
the others?  What do you say?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  One  must study the  scriptures  thoroughly.
Rejecting  the  impersonalist theory that Sanda and  Amarka  taught
him,  Prahlada instead made the holy names of Lord Hari the be-all-
and-end-all  of his life.  Therefore Prahlada was a  pure  devotee.
Of  this there is no doubt.  The truth is that without careful  and
impartial investigation, one cannot understand the true meaning  of
the scriptures.
      Nyayaratna:  If  this  is true, that  the  Vaisnava  religion
existed  from  time  immemorial, then what new thing  did  Caitanya
Mahaprabhu teach, that He should be especially honoured?
      Vaisnava dasa: The Vaisnava religion is like a lotus  flower.
It  blossoms  slowly.   First it is  a  bud.   Then  it  is  partly
blossomed.   Only  slowly  does it become  like  a  fully-blossomed
flower.   At  the  time  of the demigod Brahma,  the  impersonalist
theory,  the  practice of devotional service, and the knowledge  of
the  Supreme  Personality  of Godhead  as  described  in  the  four
essential  verses  of  Srimad  Bhagavatam  were  new  sprouts  just
beginning  to  grow in the hearts of the living entities.   At  the
time  of  Prahlada and the others the sprout had grown to become  a
bud.   That you can see.  At the time of Vyasa Muni that bud slowly
opened,  and at the time of the great Vaisnava acaryas it became  a
flower.   When Sriman Mahaprabhu came to this world that flower  of
love  became  fully  blossomed and spread its  sweet  fragrance  to
everyone.  Sriman Mahaprabhu revealed the most confidential  secret
of  the  Vaisnava religion: the pure love attained by chanting  the
Lord's  holy names.  In this way he gave the greatest good  fortune
to  the living entities in the material world.  The chanting of the
holy  names of the Lord is such a valuable treasure.  Who else  but
Lord Caitanya revealed the  truth of this?  Although this truth was
certainly described in the scriptures, it had not been revealed  to
the  people in general.  Ah, before Lord Caitanya had the  treasure
house of the nectar of love of God even been opened in this way?
      Nyayaratna:  Well, if the chanting of the holy  names  is  so
sweet, why do the learned panditas not like it?
     Vaisnava dasa: In Kali-yuga the word 'pandita' no longer means
what it once did.  In the scriptures the word 'panda' is defined as
'brilliant intelligence', and therefore a person who has  brilliant
intelligence is called a 'pandita'.  Nowadays anyone who can  spout
meaningless  jargon from the nyaya-sastra or interpret  the  Smrti-
sastra  in  a  way  to  please the people in general  is  called  a
'pandita'.  Are such 'panditas' able to understand and or to  teach
the  truth of religion and the true meaning of the scriptures?  Can
anyone  attain  through the meaningless jargon of the  nyaya-sastra
the  spiritual  truth,  which is to be attained  by  impartial  and
careful study of all the scriptures?  In truth only persons  expert
at  cheating themselves and others are called pandita in the  Kali-
yuga.  These so-called panditas carry on great stormy debates  over
earthen  pots and scraps of cloth.  What is reality,  what  is  the
relationship between the individual souls and the Supreme, what the
real  spiritual need of all living entities, and how can that  need
be  fulfilled,  these panditas will never have a stormy  debate  to
settle these things.  Only when one understands the truths of these
things will one be able to know the answer to the question: What is
the value of the loving chanting of Lord Hari's holy names?
      Nyayaratna: Well, I'll certainly agree that there are  hardly
any  good  panditas  nowadays.  Still, why is  it  that  the  great
brahmanas  born in exalted families refuse to accept your  Vaisnava
religion?    The  brahmana  caste  is  in  the  mode  of  goodness.
Brahmanas  are naturally on the right path and naturally  attracted
to  the highest religious principles.  Why, then, are the brahmanas
so ferociously opposed to the Vaisnava religion?
     Vaisnava dasa: Since you have asked this question, it is right
that  I  give  the proper reply.  Still, Vaisnavas do not  like  to
criticise  others.  Look, if you will not feel pain  and  anger  in
your heart, and if you desire to know what is the real truth, I can
answer your question.
      Nyayaratna: Do it.  I have studied the scriptures.  I  am  in
favour  of  peacefulness, self-control, and tolerance.  Your  words
will  not be intolerable for me.  Please speak straight.  I  accept
what is good and true.
      Vaisnava  dasa: Look, Sri Ramanuja, Madhava, Visnu Svami  and
Nimbarka  were all brahmanas.  They had thousands and thousands  of
brahmana  disciples.  In our Bengal our Mahaprabhu  was  a  vaidika
brahmana.   Our  Nityananda Prabhu was  a  radhiya  brahmana.   Our
Advaita  Prabhu was a rajendra brahmana.  Our gosvamis and mahantas
were mostly brahmanas.  Thousands and thousands of great souls  who
were the tilaka markings of great brahmana families took shelter of
the  Vaisnava religion and preached the pure Vaisnava  religion  to
the people of the world.  How can you say that exalted brahmanas do
not honour the Vaisnava religion?  This we know:  All the brahmanas
who  honour the Vaisnava religion are all exalted brahmanas.   Only
because of bad families, bad association, or bad education do  some
brahmanas  become enemies because their brahmanical principles  are
so  great  and  exalted.   They become  enemies  because  they  are
degraded and unfortunate.  The scriptures declare that in Kali-yuga
the  number  of  true brahmanas is very few.  These  few  brahmanas
become  Vaisnavas.  When he accepts the Vaisnava gayatri, which  is
the  mother  of  all  the Vedas, a brahmana  becomes  an  initiated
Vaisnava.   However,  pushed by the faults  of  Kali-yuga,  such  a
brahmana may then accept another, a non-Vedic initiation.  In  this
way he loses his status as a Vaisnava.  Simply because you see they
are few in number, please do not come to the wrong conclusion about
the Vaisnava brahmanas.
      Nyayaratna: Why do many low-class people embrace the Vaisnava
religion?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  There is no doubt of that.   Many  low-class
people are naturally very humble, and for this reason the Vaisnavas
consider them good candidates for their mercy.  No one can become a
Vaisnava  without  first  receiving the  mercy  of  the  Vaisnavas.
Persons  who are intoxicated with pride of caste, pride of  wealth,
or  other  kinds of pride cannot be humble.  For them  it  is  very
difficult to attain the mercy of the Vaisnavas.
     Nyayaratna: I don't like to know any more about it.  I can see
that eventually you will quote some hard words from the scriptures.
It  gives my heart great pain to hear these words, words like these
of the Varaha Purana:
      "In  the Kali-yuga demons take birth in the families  of  the
brahmanas."
      I  don't like to talk about these things.  Now please say why
you  have  no respect for our Sri Sankara Svami, who is a shoreless
ocean of spiritual knowledge?
      Vaisnava dasa: Why do you say that?  We say that Sri  Sankara
Svami  is  an incarnation of Lord Siva Himself.  Sriman  Mahaprabhu
taught  us to honour him with the title Acarya.  The only thing  is
we  do not accept his mayavada philosophy.  The mayavada philosophy
is  not  the religion taught in the Vedas.  Actually, it is covered
Buddhism.   In  order  to give the demons a  stable  life,  by  the
Supreme Lord's order the acarya distorted the true meaning  of  the
Vedas, Vedanta, and Bhagavad-gita, and taught the Advaita-vada, the
philosophy of an impersonal God.  Is the acarya at fault for  that?
Do  people criticise him?  Buddha was an incarnation of the Supreme
Lord.   He  preached  a philosophy opposed to the  Vedas.   Do  the
followers of the Vedas criticise him?  If someone says, "It is  not
good for the Supreme Lord and the demigod Siva to act in that way",
then  I  reply:  Why  not?  They are never cruel  or  unjust.   The
Supreme Personality of Godhead, the protector of the universe,  and
His  assistant Lord Siva are both all-knowing and the givers of all
good.   They are never cruel or unjust.  Their actions have a  deep
purpose  the  small individual souls have no power  to  understand.
Therefore  They  should not be criticised.  Because  they  are  not
intelligent  enough to understand the purpose of the  Lord,  people
may  criticise Him, saying "It is not good for the Supreme Lord  to
act  in  this  way. He should have acted in that way."  Intelligent
people  never talk like that.  Why was the impersonalist philosophy
needed  then  to control the demonic people?  Only the all-powerful
Lord  knows.  Why is there a need to create the various  life-forms
and  then destroy them at the end?  We have not the power to  know.
These are the pastimes of the Lord.  Persons who are devoted to the
Lord  feels bliss to hear of His pastimes.  They are not  eager  to
say  the Lord acted wrongly or to question the virtue of the Lord's
actions.
      Nyayaratna:  Good.   But why do you  say  that  the  mayavada
philosophy  is against the teachings of the Vedas and the  Vedanta-
sutra?
      Vaisnava  dasa: If you carefully consider the Vedas  and  the
Vedanta-sutra, then please tell me which mantras and  which  sutras
support   the  mayavada  conclusion?   I  will  show   the   proper
interpretation of all those mantras and sutras.  It may  seem  that
some   Vedic  mantras  show  a  dim  reflection  of  the   mayavada
philosophy.   However,  when we look at what precedes  and  follows
those  mantras, in a moment the mayavada interpretation  flees  far
away.
      Nyayaratna: My brother, I never studied the Upanisads and the
Vedanta-sutra.  I can discuss anything about the nyaya-sastra.   In
that debate I can turn a clay pot into a piece of cloth and a piece
of  cloth into a clay pot.  I read a little of the Gita, but I  did
not really enter into it.  Here I must stop.  Well, I would like to
as one more thing.  You are a great pandita, so you can give a good
answer.   Why  do  the Vaisnavas have faith only  in  the  prasadam
remnants of Lord Visnu and not in the remnants of the demigods  and
demigoddesses?
      Vaisnava dasa: I am not a pandita.  I am a great fool.  If  I
can  speak  nicely  that  is  only  because  of  the  mercy  of  my
paramahamsa gurudeva.  Everyone should know that.  The ocean of the
scriptures has no shore.  No one can study all the scriptures.   My
gurudeva churned the ocean of the scriptures and gave me the  cream
of  their final conclusions.  In know that what he teaches  is  the
final  conclusion  of  all  the scriptures.   The  answer  to  your
question  is  this:  The Vaisnavas do not disrespect  the  prasadam
remnants of the demigods and demigoddesses.  Sri Krsna is the  only
Supreme  God.   The  other  demigods  and  demigoddesses  are   His
obedience  devotees.  The Vaisnavas respect the  prasadam  remnants
left by the devotees of the Lord.  They do not disrespect them.  By
accepting  the prasadam remnants left by the devotees, one  attains
pure  devotion  to the Lord.  The dust of the devotees'  feet,  the
nectar  water  that has washed the devotees' feet, and  the  nectar
food  that has touched the devotees' lips, these three are all very
wonderful and delightful.  They should certainly be accepted.  Here
is  the  truth: If an impersonalist worships a demigod  and  offers
food  and  other  things to him, the demigod will  not  accept  the
worship, the food, or any other offering, because the person making
the  offering  is  contaminated  by the  impersonalist  philosophy.
There is abundant proof of that in the scriptures.  If you like,  I
can   quote.    The   worshippers  of  the  demigods   are   mostly
impersonalists.    The   demigod-prasadam   they   offer   destroys
devotional  service and creates an offense before Bhakti-devi,  the
goddess of devotion.  If a pure Vaisnava offers the prasadam tasted
by  Lord  Krsna  to  a demigod or a demigoddess,  that  demigod  or
demigoddess happily accepts that prasadam and dances with joy.   If
a  Vaisnava  then  takes  that prasadam,  he  becomes  filled  with
happiness.   Look,  the commands given by the scriptures  are  most
important.   It  is  written  in  the  yoga-sastra  that  a  person
practicing  yoga  should not accept the prasadam  of  any  demigod.
This  does not mean that a person practicing yoga should disrespect
the  prasadam  remnants offered to the demigods.  It  merely  means
that  renouncing these remnants is helpful for yoga meditation.  In
the  same way, if a person is engaged in devotional service accepts
prasadam  remnants  offered to any but the Lord  He  worships,  the
devotee  cannot attain unalloyed devotion to his Lord.   This  does
not  mean that he disrespects the prasadam remnants offered to  the
demigods.   Please  know,  then,  that  this  is  ordered  by   the
scriptures and it is meant only to attain a particular goal.
      Nyayaratna: Good.  I accept that answer.  Why do  you  reject
the animal sacrifices prescribed in the scriptures?
      Vaisnava  dasa: The scriptures do not teach that  one  should
kill animals.  The scriptures declare:
     "Don't do violence to any creature."
      With these words the Vedas prohibit violence to animals.   As
long as he is in the grip of the modes of passion and ignorance,  a
man will yearn to associate with women, eat meat, and drink liquor.
He does not wait to hear the Vedas command him before he does these
things.  The purpose of the Vedas is this: As long as a man is  not
situated  in  the  mode of goodness, a man  will  not  be  able  to
renounce  killing  animals, drinking liquor, and yearning  for  the
touch  of  a  woman.   It  is to curb these propensities  that  the
scriptures prescribe association with a woman in marriage,  killing
animals  in  sacrifice, and drinking liquor at certain  ceremonies.
In  these ways a man's indulgence in these things is curtailed, and
at  the  end he becomes able to renounce them completely.  That  is
the  purpose of the Vedas.  The Vedas do not really teach that  one
should  kill animals.  That is described in these words  of  Srimad
Bhagavatam (11.5.11):
      ""In  this  material  world the conditioned  soul  is  always
inclined   to   sex,  meat-eating,  and  intoxication.    Therefore
religious  scriptures  never actually encourage  these  activities.
Although the scriptural injunctions provide for sex through  sacred
marriage,  for meat eating through sacrificial offerings,  and  for
intoxication  through the acceptance of ritual cups of  wine,  such
ceremonies are meant for the ultimate purpose of renunciation."***
      Therefore the Vaisnavas do not protest if men in the modes of
passion   and   ignorance  kill  animals  in  these  circumstances.
However,  men  in  the  mode of goodness should  not  perform  such
activities.   To  be violent to others is the way of  the  animals.
Sri  Narada  Muni describes the way of the animals in  these  words
(Srimad Bhagavatam 1.13.47):
      "Those  who are devoid of hands are prey for those  who  have
hands.   Those  devoid of legs are prey for the  four-legged.   The
weak  are the sustenance of the strong, and the general rule  holds
that one living being is food for another."*
     Manu also explains (Manu-samhita 5.56):
      "Everyone in material life is attracted to furthering the way
of  attachment (pravrtti-marga), but the greatest treasure is to be
gained by following the path of detachment (nivrtti-marga)."*
     Nyayaratna:  Good.  Why do the Vaisnavas object to performance
of  sraddha  and other rituals to repay the debts one owes  to  his
ancestors?
      Vaisnava dasa:  If men who follow the karma-kanda rituals  of
the  Vedas  perform  the sraddha ceremony, the  Vaisnavas  have  no
objection.   However, the scriptures do say this (Srimad Bhagavatam
11.5.51):
      "Anyone  who takes shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda,  the
giver  of  liberation, giving up all kinds of obligation,  and  has
taken  to  the  path  in all seriousness, owes neither  duties  nor
obligations to the demigods, sages, general living entities, family
members, humankind, or forefathers."*
     The conclusion, then, is that devotees who have surrendered to
the  Lord do not need to perform karma-kanda sraddha ceremonies  to
repay  the  debts  they owe to their ancestors.  They  worship  the
Lord, offer the Lord's prasadam to their ancestors, and then honour
that  prasadam with their family.  That is the sraddha ritual  they
perform.
     Nyayaratna: When is one qualified to act in that way?
      Vaisnava  dasa:  On  the  day  when  one  has  faith  in  the
descriptions  of Lord Hari and the holy name of Lord  Hari  one  is
counted  as  a  Vaisnava.  This is described by  the  Supreme  Lord
Himself in these words (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.20.9):
      "As long as one is not displeased by fruitive activity and as
long as one has no faith in hearing about Me, one has to follow the
rituals of the Vedas."
      Nyayaratna:  I am very pleased.  When I see your  scholarship
and  sharp  intelligence, I have faith in the  Vaisnavas.   I  feel
happiness  in my heart.  Harihara, why should we argue  with  these
people?   These  people  are very great scholars.   They  are  very
expert  in  understanding the scriptures.  Whatever we may  say  to
keep  our  business  prosperous,  Nimai  Pandita  is  the  greatest
philosopher and Vaisnava who ever took birth in the land of Bengal.
Of  this there is no doubt.  Now let us cross the Ganges.  The  day
is  almost ended.  Calling our "Haribol! Haribol!"  Nyayaratna  and
his   companions   departed.   Singing  "Jaya  Sacinananda!",   the
Vaisnavas danced.
Chapter Eleven
Nitya-dharma O Byut parasta Arthat Pauttalikata
Eternal Religion and Byut-parasta or Deity Worship
      On  the  Ganges' western shore is the village of Pahara-pura.
That  famous village is in the middle of Koladvipa, which is within
Navadvipa.    At  the  time  of  Sriman  Mahaprabhu  an  especially
respectable   and   influential  man   named   Sri   Madhava   dasa
Cattopadhyaya (also known as Ca'kari Cattopadhyaya).  Ca'kari had a
son  named  Srila  Vamsivadanananda Thakura.  By Lord  Mahaprabhu's
mercy,   Sri  Vamsivadanananda  became  very  great  and  powerful.
Thinking him an incarnation of Lord Krsna's flute, everyone  called
him  Prabhu  Vamsivadanananda.   It  was  well  known  that  Mother
Visnupriya  was  especially  merciful to  Prabhu  Vamsivadanananda.
After  Mother  Visnupriya disappeared, Vamsivadanananda  moved  the
Deity  form  of  the Lord from Sri Mayapura to Kuliya  Pahara-pura.
When  his descendants attained the mercy of Mother Sri Jahnavi  and
moved  to  Sripat  Baghanapara, the worship of the  Deity  of  Lord
Mahaprabhu was continued by the pujaris living in Malanca in Kuliya-
grama.
      The  village of Kuliya-grama was situated across  the  Ganges
from  the  old city of Navadvipa.  In the area of Kuliya were  some
famous  small hamlets, such as the one named Cinadanga.  A  devotee
merchant of Cinadanga once held a great spiritual festival  in  the
temple  at Kuliya Paharapura.  Many brahmana panditas and  all  the
Vaisnavas within thirty-two miles of Navadvipa were invited to that
festival.   On  the day of the festival the Vaisnavas  were  coming
from  all  directions.  Sri Ananta dasa and others  came  from  Sri
Nrsimha-palli.   Sri  Goracanda Babaji and  others  came  from  Sri
Mayapura.  Sri Narayana dasa Babaji and others came from Sri Bilva-
puskarini.   Sri Narahari dasa and others came from Sri  Modadruma.
The  paramahamsa babaji, Vaisnava dasa, and others  came  from  Sri
Godruma.  Sri Sacinandana dasa and others came from Sri Samudragar.
The  tilaka  mark  of  Lord Hari's temple was on  their  foreheads,
tulasi  beads  were around their necks, and all  their  limbs  were
resplendent  with the marks of Lord Gaura and Lord Nityananda.   In
every  hand  were beads for chanting the holy names of  Lord  Hari.
Everyone loudly chanted:
     Hare Krsna Hare Krsna
          Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
     Hare Rama Hare Rama
          Rama Rama Hare Hare
      That was the mantra they sang.  Some played the karatalas and
sang:
     "Glorious Lord Gaura dances in the sankirtana!"
     Again and again some danced and sang:
     Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda
     Sri Advaita Gadadhara Srivasadi bhakta vrnda
     Many tears fell from many eyes.  Some limbs had hairs standing
erect in ecstasy.  Some fervently called out, "O Gaura-kisora! Will
You  eternal  pastimes ever be seen by our eyes!"   Some  Vaisnavas
played mrdangas and repeatedly sang the holy the holy names as they
walked.   The  women from Kuliya who were devotees  of  Lord  Gaura
became  filled  with wonder to see the ecstatic love the  Vaisnavas
showed.   Walking and walking, the Vaisnavas finally  came  to  the
temple,  which was now a theatre where there would be a play  about
Sriman Mahaprabhu.  A cloth around his neck, the host merchant fell
at  the  Vaisnavas'  feet and spoke many humble  words.   Then  the
Vaisnavas  took their seats within the theatre.  The  pujaris  came
and  placed  prasadam flower-garlands around the Vaisnavas'  necks.
Then  the  play  Sri  Caitanya-mangala began.  As  they  heard  the
nectarean  pastimes  of  Lord Caitanya,  the  Vaisnavas  manifested
different kinds of sattvika-bhava ecstasies.  As everyone was  thus
plunged  in  an  ocean  of  transcendental   bliss,  one   of   the
gatekeepers  approached the temple authorities and  said  that  the
head mullah of Satsahaika Paragana had come, was now seated in  the
courtyard  with his associates, and wanted to talk with a  Vaisnava
pandita.   The  temple  authorities informed the  assembled  babaji
panditas.   The  nectar  of  the play  was  thus  interrupted,  the
Vaisnavas  became  unhappy.  Sri Krsnadasa  Babaji  or  Madhyadvipa
asked,  "What  is the mullah's intention?"  Aware of  the  mullah's
intention, one the temple authorities said, "The mullah  wishes  to
talk  with the Vaisnavas about the spiritual truth."  He also  said
that the mullah had no rival among the Mohammedan scholars, he  was
very  earnest about preaching his own religion everywhere,  and  he
was not a fanatic who hated other religions.  Also, the emperor  at
Delhi  greatly respected him.  The mullah also asked that only  one
or   two  Vaisnava  panditas  engage  in  the  conversation   about
scripture.  He thought in that way the pure Vaisnava religion would
be  defeated.   Hearing that an opportunity to preach the  Vaisnava
religion had now come, the desire to talk with this mullah arose in
the  hearts  of  some of the Vaisnavas.  Talking among  themselves,
they  decided  that Goracanda dasa Pandita Babaji of Sri  Mayapura,
Sri  Vaisnava dasa Pandita Babaji of Sri Godruma, Prema dasa Babaji
of Jahnu-nagara, and Kali-pavana dasa Babaji of Campahatta would go
and  talk  with  the mullah, and when the play Sri Caitanya-mangala
ended, everyone else would come and join them.  Calling out,  "Jaya
Nityananda!"  the four babajis followed the mahanta  to  the  outer
courtyard.   The outer courtyard was very pleasant.   It  was  cool
with the shade of a banyan tree.  Seeing the Vaisnavas coming,  the
mullah  and his associates greeted them respectfully.  Fully  aware
that  al  souls  are servants of Lord Krsna, the Vaisnavas  offered
dandavat obeisances to Lord Vasudeva residing in the hearts of  the
mullahs.   Then  the Vaisnavas took their seats.   It  was  a  very
beautiful  sight.  On one side were fifty white-bearded  Mohammedan
scholars, nicely dressed and decorated.  Behind them some decorated
horses  were  tethered.  On the other side  were  four  humble  and
effulgent Vaisnavas.  Behind them were many Hindus who had come and
taken  their  seats out of curiosity.  The pandita Goracanda  spoke
first, "O noble ones, for what purpose have you remembered us  poor
people?"   The  saintly  mullah Badaruddin  Sahib  humbly  replied,
"Salaam!   Please accept our respects.  We have come  to  ask  some
questions.  The pandita Goracanda replied, "As far as I am able,  I
shall  answer  your  learned questions.  Badaruddin  Sahib  stepped
forward  and  said,  "Brothers, in Hindu  society  the  worship  of
demigods and demigoddesses has existed for many days.  In our  holy
Koran  I see that Allah is one, not two.  He has no form.  To  make
an image of Him and to worship it is a great offense.  I asked many
brahmana panditas about this, and they said that although Allah  is
indeed formless, the mind cannot meditate on a formless thing,  and
therefore  one should create an imaginary form of Allah,  and  that
form  should receive our worship and meditation.  I am not able  to
accept  these words very happily.  Why not?  To create an imaginary
form  like  that  is the work of Satan.  We call that  'byut'.   To
worship  'byut'  is completely forbidden.  By that worship  one  is
pushed  far  away  from pleasing Allah and one  becomes  worthy  of
punishment  by  Him.   We  have heard  that  your  first  preacher,
Caitanyadeva took all the faults of the Hindu religion.  Still,  He
was  in  favour  of this 'byut' worship, or worship of  a  material
thing.   We  want  to  know  from  the  Vaisnavas  is:  Why,  after
consulting  the  scriptures,  have you  not  rejected  this  'byut'
worship?"
      Hearing  this question from the mullah, the Vaisnava panditas
smiled within their minds.  Openly they said, "This saintly pandita
babaji  will  give  the  answer to you."  Replying  with,  "As  you
order",  the  pandita Goracanda said, "He whom you call  Allah,  we
call  Bhagavan.   Both  these  words  refer  to  the  same  Supreme
Personality  of Godhead.  He is called by different  names  in  the
Koran, the Puranas, and in different countries and languages.   The
name   that  best  expresses  all  the  qualities  of  the  Supreme
Personality of Godhead should be accepted.  That is why  we  favour
the  name  Bhagavan over Allah, Brahman, Paramatma  and  all  other
names.   The word Allah means 'He who has no superior'.  We do  not
call  superiority the best of the Lord's qualities.   We  say  that
wonderfulness  is the best of His qualities.  To  be  very  big  is
certainly very wonderful.  However, the opposite, to be very small,
is also very wonderful.  Therefore the name Allah does not reach to
the  highest  limit  of the Lord's wonderful qualities.   The  word
Bhagavan,  however, refers to all wonderful qualities human  beings
can know.  It puts them all in one word.  The ultimate of greatness
and  the  ultimate of smallness are only one feature  of  Bhagavan.
That  He  is  the  master of all potencies is a second  feature  of
Bhagavan.   Whatever  a  human  being  thinks  is  impossible,  His
inconceivable potency can easily accomplish.  It is by the power of
His inconceivable potency that He both has a form and does not have
a  form.  If we say that He does not have a form, then we deny  His
inconceivable potency.  By His inconceivable potency He has a  form
and He enjoys pastimes with His devotees eternally.  Allah, Brahman
and  Paramatma  are  formless, therefore They  do  not  have  these
wonderful  features.  Bhagavan is all-auspicious and  all-  famous.
His   pastimes  are  sweet  like  nectar.   Bhagavan  is  sublimely
handsome.   With spiritual eyes, the liberated souls  gaze  on  His
handsomeness.  Bhagavan has all knowledge.  He is pure and perfect.
He  is  beyond the touch of matter.  His form is spiritual.  He  is
beyond  the  material  elements, or 'byut'.   Although  He  is  the
creator of the material world, Bhagavan is untouched by matter.  He
is   independent.   The  word  Bhagavan  means  "He  who  has   six
opulences'.   Bhagavan  has  two  features:  1.  opulence  and   2.
sweetness.   The  feature of sweetness is the best  friend  of  the
spirit  souls.   He  is the Lord of our hearts.   He  is  Krsna  or
Caitanya.   Therefore if someone says that the word of an imaginary
form  of Bhagavan is 'byut' worship, or worship of matter, that  is
not in opposition to our philosophy.  The Vaisnava religion teaches
that one should worship the Lord's eternal form (which is perfectly
spiritual).   According  to the Vaisnava philosophy  this  kind  of
worship  of the Lord's form is not 'byut' worship.  If in any  book
it  is  said  that this kind of worship is 'byut'  worship  and  is
forbidden,   then  that  book  has  no  authority  to  forbid   it.
Everything  depends on the faith within the heart.  A person  whose
heart  is  free from 'byut', who is beyond the material world,  can
worship the pure spiritual form of the Lord.  You are Mullah Sahib.
You  are  a great pandita.  Your heart is certainly free  from  the
touch  of  matter.   But are the hearts of your neophyte  disciples
free  from  the  thought of 'byut'?  To whatever extent  a  man  is
filled with thoughts of 'byut' to that extent his worship of God is
really  worship of 'byut'.  With his mouth he says God is formless,
and  his  mind  is filled with thoughts of 'byut'.  The  people  in
general  find  it very hard to worship the pure form of  the  Lord.
Only  a person who is specially qualified, who is beyond the  touch
of  matter, can rise above thinking of 'byut'.  I request that  you
consider these points."
      Mullah: I have considered these points, and I think that  the
six  wonderful  qualities of Bhagavan you have described  are  also
ascribed  to Allah in the holy Koran.  There is no need  to  debate
the etymology of the word Allah is Bhagavan.
      Goracanda: Good.  Then you accept that the Supreme Being  has
opulence  and  handsomeness.  Then it is accepted  that  he  has  a
handsome  form  in the spiritual world, which is a place  different
from  the  material world.  That form of the Lord is the  Deity  we
worship.
     Mullah: In our Koran it is also written that the Supreme has a
spiritual form that is greater than the greatest.  We accept  that.
However, when you make a statue of that spiritual form, that statue
is material.  Therefore I say that it is 'byut'.  Worship of 'byut'
is  not the same as worship of He who is greater than the greatest.
Please say what you think of this.
      Goracanda:  In the Vaisnava scriptures it is  said  that  one
should  worship  the pure and spiritual Deity  form  of  the  Lord.
Exalted  devotees would not worship the Deity form of the  Lord  if
that  form  were made of earth or any other material  element.   In
Srimad Bhagavatam (10.48.13) it is said:
     "A human being who identifies this body made of three elements
with his self, who considers the by-products of this body to be his
kinsmen,  who considers the Deity form of the Lord to  be  made  of
earth  or  other  material  elements, who  goes  to  the  place  of
pilgrimage  simply  to  take a bath rather  than  to  meet  men  of
transcendental knowledge there, is to be considered as an ass or  a
cow."
     In Bhagavad-gita (9.25) it is said:
     "They who worship matter remain in the material world."
      Therefore the conclusion of the scriptures is that worship of
matter is not allowed.  That you can see.  However, a certain point
should be explained.  Human beings are situated on different levels
of  knowledge  and  purity.  A person situated  in  pure  spiritual
knowledge  is able to worship the pure spiritual form of the  Lord.
Persons  situated on lower levels of spiritual awareness understand
the  Lord to a lesser degree, and they who are on the lowest  level
cannot  understand the Lord's spiritual nature  at  all.   When  he
meditates on God, a person on the lowest level inevitably  imagines
that  God  has a material form with material qualities.   To  think
that  the  Deity form of the Lord is a statue made of clay  is  the
same  as to meditate in the mind on a Supreme that one imagines  to
have a form made of matter.  Actually for persons on that level  of
advancement,  worship  of  the Deity  form  of  the  Lord  is  very
beneficial.  In fact, if there were no deity worship, the people in
general  would  be in an inauspicious condition.   If  an  ordinary
person eager to see God were not able to see the Deity form of  the
Lord, then he would lose hope that he would ever see the Lord.  The
followers of religions that forbid Deity worship are on a low level
of   spiritual  advancement.   They  are  materialistic   and   not
interested in worshipping the Lord.  Therefore Deity worship is the
foundation of religion.  Pure and wise saints gaze on the  form  of
the  Supreme  Lord.  Their hearts purified by devotion,  they  know
that  the  Deity  form of the Lord is pure spirit.   As  the  heart
becomes   more  and  more  purified  by  devotion,  the  worshipper
gradually comes to understand that the Deity form of the Lord is  a
spiritual  form  reflected within the realm of the material  world.
Thus  the Deity form is the spiritual form of the Lord, a form that
the  great saints have arranged to be reflected within the material
world.   An advanced devotees can directly perceive that the  Deity
form  is  perfectly spiritual.  An intermediate devotee thinks  the
Deity  form is a mental image.  At first a neophyte devotee  thinks
the  Deity  is  a  statue  made of material  elements,  but  as  he
gradually  become  pure  in  heart,  he  also  gradually  comes  to
understand  that  the Deity is actually made of spirit.   Therefore
the  Deity form of the Lord should be worshipped by all classes  of
devotees.  To worship an imaginary form is forbidden.  However,  to
worship  the  real  eternal form of the Lord  is  very  auspicious.
Therefore  the worship of the Deity of the Lord is established  for
all three classes of Vaisnavas.  There is nothing wrong in it.   On
the  contrary,  it brings the greatest auspiciousness.   In  Srimad
Bhagavatam (11.14.26) the Supreme Lord Himself declares:
      "When a person purifies his heart by hearing and singing pure
songs  describing Me, he gradually becomes able to see spirit.   He
becomes  like  a  person  whose eyesight is restored  by  medicinal
ointment."
      In  the  material  world the mind tends  to  be  filled  with
material  thoughts.   In that condition the soul  is  not  able  to
understand his true spiritual identity and he is also not  able  to
serve  the Supreme Lord, who resides in his heart as the Supersoul.
By  hearing and chanting the Lord's glories and by performing other
kinds  of  devotional service, the soul gradually becomes powerful.
Then  the bonds of matter that hold him become slackened.   As  the
bondage of matter becomes slackened, the soul becomes stronger, and
in  the  course of time the soul becomes exalted.  He can  directly
see  spirit,  and he can act on the spiritual platform.   Some  say
that  one should far away all that has no relation to the Lord  and
one  should  act  only to attain Him.  However, one  cannot  become
spiritual  strong merely by dry knowledge.  How can  a  conditioned
soul  get  the  power to suddenly renounce all that has  no  direct
relation  to  the  Lord?  Can a prisoner in  jail  release  himself
simply  by wishing to be free?  The soul imprisoned in the material
world has committed an offense to the Supreme Lord.  He must find a
way  to  lessen  that offense.  The spirit soul  is  by  nature  an
eternal  servant of Lord Krsna.  The root of the soul's offense  is
that  he has forgotten that.  Therefore, somehow or other he should
turn his mind to think of the Lord.  By gazing at the Deity form of
the Lord, hearing the description of the Lord's pastimes, and other
devotional  activities,  the soul gradually  revives  his  original
spiritual nature.  The more the soul's original nature is  revived,
the  more  the soul can see spirit directly.  Serving the Deity  of
the  Lord, and hearing and chanting the Lord's glories are the only
way  for  the neophyte devotee to make spiritual advancement.   For
this reason the great saints have established Deity worship in this
world.
      Mullah:  Is it not better to meditate on an imaginary  within
the  mind  than to make an imaginary Deity form out of the material
elements?
      Goracanda: They are the same.  When the mind is material,  it
thinks only of material things.  You may say, Brahman, the Supreme,
is  all-pervading".  Still, the material mind will think Brahman is
like  the  material  element ether, which  is  also  all-pervading.
However, if I continue to meditate on Brahman in that way,  in  the
course  of time the real truth about Brahman will be manifested  in
my  heart.   Time and space are material.  If the mind's meditation
is  not  beyond time and space, then how can the mind  meditate  on
something  that is beyond the material world.  Rejecting the  Deity
form as something made of earth, water, or other material elements,
you  meditate on an imaginary form of the Lord, a form made of time
and  space.   That is worship of a material form  of  the  Lord,  a
graven image of the Lord.  A material so-called form of the Lord is
not needed.  The Lord is not material.  His is spiritual.  That  is
His  nature.  Therefore a process is given to the conditioned souls
by which they can approach the spiritual Supreme Lord.  By chanting
the   Lord's  holy  names,  by  narrating  His  pastimes,  and   by
worshipping  His Deity form, one gradually becomes  more  and  more
devoted to the Lord.  When the worshipper attains pure devotion, he
can  see  the  spiritual form of the Supreme  Lord.   Philosophical
speculation and fruitive work will not help one to see the Lord.
     Mullah: The Supreme Lord is different from matter.  It is said
that  Satan introduced the worship of material things in  order  to
trap the souls in the material world.  Therefore I think it is  not
good to worship material things.
     Goracanda: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is one without a
rival.   No one can possible compete with Him.  Everything in  this
material  world was created by Him and is dependent  on  Him.   The
Supreme  Lord  may  be worshipped in many different  ways.   He  is
pleased by all these different kinds of worship.  It is not that He
will  become an enemy if someone worships Him in a particular  way.
He is all-auspicious.  If you say that Satan does something, then I
say  that Satan does not have the power to do anything against  the
Supreme  Lord's  will.   If  Satan  exists,  then  he  must  be  an
individual  soul dependent on the Supreme Lord.  however,  I  think
that this Satan does not exist.  Why not?  Because in this material
world  nothing can ever be done to thwart the Supreme Lord's  will.
There  is not a single individual soul who is not dependent on  the
Supreme Lord.  You may ask, 'What is the origin of sin?'  I  reply:
The  individual  soul  is  by  nature  a  servant  of  the  Supreme
Personality  of Godhead.  Awareness of this fact is knowledge.   To
forget  this  fact  is  ignorance.  If an  individual  spirit  soul
forgets  this fact, then he sows the seed of sins in the  field  of
his  heart.   A person who always remains a liberated associate  of
the  Lord does not plant the seed of sin in his heart.  Instead  of
imagining  this  mythological Satan, one should  honestly  see  the
ignorance  in  his own heart.  Therefore, even if one worships  the
Supreme  Lord  as present in the material elements, he  commits  no
offense.   Therefore Deity worship is necessary  for  the  neophyte
devotee  and  the source of great auspiciousness for  the  advanced
devotee.  Therefore the idea that Deity worship is not good is only
a  theory of some thinkers.  It is not at all supported by the pure
scriptures.
      Mullah: Deity worship is not good for attaining love of  God.
It simply fills the mind with many material ideas.
      Goracanda: By studying the ancient history books we  can  see
that  your conclusion is wrong.  Many neophyte devotees begin their
spiritual life by worshipping the Deity form of the Lord.  As  they
continue the Deity worship in the association of the devotees, they
gradually become advanced, and then they can directly see that  the
Deity is the spiritual form of the Supreme Lord Himself.  Then they
become  plunged in a great ocean of spiritual love  for  the  Lord.
This is the undeniable truth:  Association with the devotees of the
Lord  is  the  root  of  all  that is good.   By  associating  with
spiritually  advanced devotees of the Lord, one  gradually  attains
spiritual love for the Lord.  When one attains spiritual  love  for
the  Lord,  the idea that the Deity form is material perishes.   As
one gradually becomes advanced, he attains great good fortune.  Non
Aryan  religions are generally opposed to deity worship.  But look!
How  many followers of those religions have attained spiritual love
for the Lord?  They simply spend their time arguing with each other
and hating each other.  How can they understand loving devotion  to
the Lord?
      Mullah: If one has love for the Lord, then there is no  fault
in  His worshipping the Deity.  However, how can the worship  of  a
dog,  a  cat, a snake, a debauchee, or some other kind of being  be
worship   of   the  Supreme  Lord?   The  honourable  prophet   has
specifically forbidden worship of 'byut'.
     Goracanda: The people in general are grateful to God.  Whether
they  sin or not, they have faith in the supremacy of God, and they
bow  down  before  the wonders that are displayed  in  this  world.
Prompted  by  their gratitude to God, the ignorant  aborigines  bow
down  before the sun, the river, the mountain, or anything that  is
very big and grand.  They offer themselves to these things and they
reveal  their hearts to them.  Although there is certainly a  great
difference  between spiritual love for the Lord and the worship  of
material things, the bewildered people who show their gratitude  to
God by bowing down before these material things gradually attain  a
good result.  Therefore it you see with the eye of reason, you will
not  blame  them for worshipping material things.  If one meditates
on  a  formless all-pervading God, or if without any spiritual love
one  offers  namaz  prayers  or other prayers,  then  how  is  that
different from worshipping a cat? It is our idea that one should do
whatever  is  necessary to arouse one's love  for  God.   If  those
neophytes  are  mocked  or  attacked,  then  the  path  of  gradual
spiritual  advancement will be blocked.  Dogmatic people refuse  to
honour  the  followers of other religions.  They  mock  and  attack
others  who  do not worship in the same way they do.  They  make  a
great mistake.
     Mullah: Should it then be said that everything is God, and the
worship of anything is the worship of God?  Is the worship of  sins
worship  of God?  Is the worship of sinful desires worship of  God?
Is God pleased by any kind of worship?
      Goracanda: We do not say that everything is God.  Rather, God
is  different  from  all else.  Everything is created  by  God  and
dependent  on  Him.  Everything has a relationship  with  God.   By
following the thread of that relationship, any thing may  lead  one
to become curious about God.  Therefore the sutra says:
     "Curiosity pushes one to tastes things."
      Therefore this kind of curiosity gradually pushes one to  try
to  experience what is spirit.  You are all great panditas.  If you
are merciful and generous, you will understand what is the truth of
this.   We  are only poor Vaisnavas.  We do not like to enter  into
debates.  If you give permission, we will now hear the musical play
Sri Caitanya-mangala.
      No one could understand what conclusion the mullah came to by
hearing these arguments.  After a short silence he said, "I am glad
to  hear your arguments.  I will come on another day and ask  about
something  else.  Now it is late.  We wish to return to our  homes.
After  speaking  these words, the mullah sahib  and  his  followers
mounted  their horses and left for Satasaika Paragana.  The babajis
happily  called  out the holy names of Lord Hari, and  entered  the
temple to hear the play Sri Caitanya-mangala.